Thank you for the excellent report. Have seen a similar report on the B&G as well as one from a friend in Paris who just got his. As a matter of fact, his first one did not run. I am wondering if I made a mistake in ordering it.

With regard to lighting the cars, according to the New Items Brochure, the 73150 lighting kit will work in these cars. Has that changed from brochure to production? If so I will be really disappointed.

Jack

...how you find interior fitting of coaches ( seats , tables...)? ...and of the Lok ... is there an interior light in the Lok ?

Seen and Tested at my dealer shop the last week.
Two box opened:
the first had the decoder damaged, and only the lights run.
The second run very, very, bad at minimum speed.
The handrails at the doors of the coaches are molded in place.
So I decided don't buy it.
Too much the 600 euro requested.[V]

As I noted in https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=3462 , it is a bit overpriced indeed. But Insiders will buy anything... I did..

Hi,

A friend of mine in Paris e-mailed me the other day to say that he had the same experience as Alberto.

In as much as I have ordered it from my dealer, I will have to buy it. But I have asked him to test it before shipping it to me. In the future I think I will not order something like this and wait to see it. There are always enough around so you can get one.

Jack

Marlene Dietrich comes to mind, refraining:
"Man wird man je verstehnnn?"

Regards,
Manfred

Manfred - guess you mean: "Wann" ?!
("When will they understand ..." - Joan Baez, too ... [:p])

I have never read such badly coments for a Marklin product.I feel
very lucky that i did not ordered that loco.

Not at all, Manfred ... Perhaps the latter - happens to me more and more the younger I become ... [xx(]

Best Regards,
John

Personally I don't really mind if a train is mostly plastic (even if it's marklin), or if the details are molded right on instead of applied seperately etc. etc. I don't even care where a train was built, as long as there's good running characteristics. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case too often. I have several (mostly) plastic loco's that run only marginally better than my old Lima loco's did way back when.

However, since it's about an insider model which they've been talking about so much, it really seems odd that the actual quality is so lousy. That the cars are plastic, okay, I can see that, but that they have no interior lighting is just wrong. I must say though, I like the look of the windows of the loco. It's not very prototypical, but they do fit nicely with the purple stripe on the loco. Black would've been out of place there.

Ohwell, never was all too interested in that set, I prefer modern streamlined trains or regular old-fashioned steam loco's, but not streamlined steamloco's.

Sorry, my English is'nt enough to describe well, but:
From a marklin loco I expect a regular running, from stop to maxium speed.
At minimum it proceed jerkily and the coaches take bumps, at medium speed it wobble. And It's the better from a group of six I have chosed.
Add plastic coaches, no lighitng, no rear lights, ecc. ecc.
For the same money I bought the Vt11, a really jewel in comparision.
All metal, two motors, sound, interior light and fantastic running.
ok?
bye

The H-W Zug looks like another nail in M's coffin... I was in doubt whether I should order it, knowing that sets would be available anyhow. Now I know for sure I will put my money on something else...

Alberto: great purchase!

I also tried the replacement shoe which came with the kit and the problem is still there. The replacement shoe really was meant for M & K trak according to the manual.

I am begining to think (scarry thought) that the motor is lacking self inertial (flywheel effect) in order to get across possible power gaps. I am planning on doing tests to see if adding larger capacitors in certain areas of the decoder will help, but first I will be looking at how the unit sits on the turnout just as it looses power for any clues before trying anything on the inside.

Thank U Maxi

Our old Marklin five pole motor is also lacking of natural inertia , but it works so well with a good electronic driving ( 6090x decoder )on a heavy Lok !

I'm very interested in knowing more about this new small C-sine motor...

---

I still love the old Marklin five poles motor , because the design comes from a pure mechanical tradition....( pure mechanical concept). So You can change some parts . All parts can be replaced and the motor is working hundred years if you want....

All these "new" motors we found in other models of almost all other brands ( including marklin ) like " can motor ", coreless motors ,C- sine motors , etc..... come from office automation and computing concepts .If something is going wrong , throw it away and buy another one....

This just supports my suspicion that Marklin has totally given up it's quality leadership in the MRR field. I have bought a few new loks, but I am becoming suspicous of the longevity of these items. I really don't think that 20 years from now we will be pulling these items out of storage and saying 'what great quality..they still run without any major maintenance" as we do about the loks built in the 70's and 80's. I think I will abandon any thoughts of purchasing new items and continue my quest for 70's and 80's loks that fit my needs.

Added: I just scored a 3053 E03 from eBay at a reasonable price. It is in excellent condition. Just have to decide now whether to put it on the shelf or upgrade it to digital. I will probably upgrade it since I want to run it!

Hi Friends,
there are many new models produced last year that are very good, PA1, GG1, Mikado, Bigboy, Vt11, and many others as DB E120, E03, the Rheingold, always the best.
But this HW, reserved before, for their insiders, their followers...
It's a real mistake.
What's the reasons?
400 people less?
new mfx?
new CS?
new C-sine compact engine?
2005 is going to be an year to forget.

This IS one kind of depressing thread, I tell you ....

Haven't read such in a long time, certainly not in THIS forum !!!

Hans

I finally had some time to look further at why the H-W runs poorly.
First I must say that sometimes brilliance is simply stupid.

Who ever designed this model missed the day electricity was taught.

From what I can see the major problem with this model is the lack of grounding from the wheels to the circuit board. Can you believe that the drive wheels (all but the middle set) have wipers on the inside to complete the circuit to the track, of which two of the wheels are the ones with traction tires (lots of electrical contact there, NOT). One set of boggies also have a ground wire to the circuit board.

My solution was to add a wire to the other set of boggies and connect it to the circuit board, Change the slider to the spare one in the kit. Immidiately there was a noticable difference in running characteristics, but far from the quality we expect from Marklin locs.

I figure that running the locomotive to help wear the mating surfaces in abit will improve the characteristics some more.

Maxi: Great solution - congratulations !
M [xx(] surely tries to keep their customers busy. Send 'em a fat bill ... [}:)]

John

Ron: Your comments are spot on. Cost cutting is fine but not if it reduces quality. I am sure most of us will pay for quality models and if it costs more then maybe we just wont be able to buy as many but at least we can be proud of those we own and have many years of pleasure.
Marklin management should take a long hard look at what they are doing to the firm.

David

David ,
I'm completely sharing your opinion ,...if you listen Marklin management , they are obsessed by manufacturing costs , which is somewhat normal and quite reassuring for a management team , but....not to the detriment of quality standards....


Have you noticed something : the " low cost " is now very fashionable in industry or services . It seems to be a temptation for Marklin management as they have seen Piko becoming very successful the last two years ....

Is the " low cost " temptation feasible in MRR industry ?

I understand the " low cost " temptation if they are producing new ranges of products . This is what Marklin have done with the new Hobby range : loks under 100 E . It's a real success because the " Hercules " or " BR 185 " are good value for money . I find them better than similar range of products in other brands . ( I got the Cargo & the BLS , I intend to buy the " european Bulls " , they are very cleaverly designed for the asked price ))


So they may produce two or three different ranges of products but not aiming at the lower end of market with the whole production . They must keep upmarket projects !

For sure , manufacturing costs are increasing a lot , specially if you want to keep nice surface finishings , metal injection , manual interventions , etc.... and all what we like on marklin models.. Marklin has a strong brand image , how they can keep this brand image ? Certainly not by only producing low cost items . There are plenty of brands of "low cost products " .

Depending on which approach they have of " low cost " fashion , it could make them to come unstuck .They must not sacrify the top of the range . (Even if former ordinary marklin quality has become today " top of the range " in industrial MRR .)

I accept to pay more to keep a high quality standard .For example I accept to pay what is necessary to pay to obtain a whole metal streamlining of the " flying hamburger " , or a whole metal streamlining definitely screwed on the tender of BR 05 instead of a risky plastic sheet clipped on the body....

etc..etc...

You have understood correctly.
It seemd that the drive wheels which are meant to make the most contact with the track are not doing so, perhaps a little more weight is required.

Ron: I wouldn't put it that far though there's a lot of truth in your words. But I've learned one thing from this: in the future I'll check a new loco very, very closely. Before ...