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Guus		#1 Posted : 14 October 2005 22:31:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi all, Maybe this might interest all of us who want to replace old motors and relays with a modern five pole motor and decoder. It's on Märklin's website:http://www.maerklin.de/produkte/sonderaktionen.php Best regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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5HorizonsRR		#2 Posted : 14 October 2005 22:35:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,976 Location: CA, USA		Forgive me for not speaking a word of German but that looks very interesting. What is it?
		SBB Era 2-5
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Guus		#3 Posted : 14 October 2005 22:39:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi John, It's a five pole motor with digital decoder for models with an old drumtype collector motor. According to their information it's an inexpensive way to digitalize certain older types of locos. Best regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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Davy		#4 Posted : 14 October 2005 22:48:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		A cheaper nr 60901 version for 39,95 euro. Only the nr is now "60760 Hochleistungs-Antriebsset" In the shop bis 30 november. Automatic systeem recognizing For Trommelkollektormotor 80 addresses which can be adjust outside. I want one.May be two our three.[:p]
		M-track with a CS2.
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steventrain		#5 Posted : 14 October 2005 22:56:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom		Good price,but i dont need it because all my loco are digital/c-shine.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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john black		#6 Posted : 14 October 2005 23:07:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Thanks, Guus - guess I must get one for my Grandson's "new" E200 (still Delta)
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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perz		#7 Posted : 14 October 2005 23:31:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Nothing about whether the decoder is regulated or not.
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5HorizonsRR		#8 Posted : 14 October 2005 23:46:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,976 Location: CA, USA		Oooo. I Like the price. I bet its just a ESU lokpilot with the Marklin hard parts. I might need to do some converting....
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Davy		#9 Posted : 15 October 2005 00:02:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		I hope the normal price will be no more then 50 euro. May be Marklin will get smart? I also hope they will come with the decoder they put in the hobbylocs for a very nice price. Our may be it is the same decoder?
		M-track with a CS2.
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frost242		#10 Posted : 15 October 2005 00:44:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 60		Thanks for the tip :)
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Noel Loganathan		#11 Posted : 15 October 2005 01:51:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 297 Location: Brisbane, QLD		Here is a summary of this sets' features: retrofitting set for HO locos with mechanical reverse unit and 3 pole motors external adjustment is possible? light switchable acceleration/braking delays are adjustable. automatic system recognition 80 different addresses can be set with motor and small parts for 39.95 Euro can be a bargain. Will be available this month. Hope this helps Cheers from Down Under Noel
		Noel
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2ndChancer		#12 Posted : 15 October 2005 03:04:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Hi all, It's listed at 32,18 euro in lokshop. Many thanks Chan
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RayF		#13 Posted : 15 October 2005 10:56:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Would the addresses etc. be able to be set with a 6021?
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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DasBert33		#14 Posted : 15 October 2005 11:43:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,273		Why don't they have a similar action for disc collector engines... Most of my 3 pole engines have disc collectors, the drum collector engines are newer ones. Bert
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Gregor		#15 Posted : 15 October 2005 12:35:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 997 Location: Netherlands		What surprises me most is the sentence "Basteln Sie mit". This is the first time I see Marklin actually encouraging people to install a decoder, instead of the usual warnings about warranty loss if not installed by professional dealer... Gregor
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perz		#16 Posted : 15 October 2005 12:56:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Still nothing about whether the decoder is regulated or not. I wouldn't buy this kit unless somebody could confirm it is really a regulated decoder. Adjustable acceleration/brake delay does not necessarily mean a regulated decoder. It is likely that this is a LokPilot-derivative, i.e. regulated, but who knows? We could ask Märklin but we already know what they will answer: Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Dear Madam / Sir, Thank you for your above mentioned letter and your interest in our modelrailway assortments. Within our comprehensive services we are prepared to answer all correspondence in a professional manner. During the peak season we continuously receive many inquiries from Maerklin and Trix enthusiats from all over the world. Due to the range of our seasonal marketing and service activities please accept, however, that handling of your concern will take about six to eight weeks. Therefore you are kindly requested to contact either your local dealer or our distributor who will gladly advise you. Our international homepage www.maerklin.com offers links to all Maerklin companies distributors and authorized dealers in the world. Please let us know in case your problems could meanwhile have been solved by our recommendation. Otherwise your letter will be answered in chronological order. We regret that the today’s situation does not allow an immediate response. We, of course, will make every endeavour to convince you of a good and quick service as soon as possible. Thanking you for your understanding and wishing you still lots of pleasure with the preparations, planning and the realization of your Maerklin layout we remain Yours sincerely Gebr. Märklin & Cie. GmbH Customer Service D 73037 Göppingen Holzheimer Straße 8
		WWW
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Maxi		#17 Posted : 15 October 2005 17:12:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 757 Location: Wawa, Ontario		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />Would the addresses etc. be able to be set with a 6021? I would assume yes to this, how ever there would be specific steps to follow or unexpected results would follow. To my knowledge all new decoders which can be programmed externally on a Marklin system via a 6021 will be done through address 80 (these decoders have no dials or switches on the decoder board to set). Which means if you have more than one locomotive with this type of decoder on the track then all the decoders will respond the to programming sequence. The locomotive with the decoder you want to program really should be on a seperate track which is isolated from the rest of the layout and all commands which are sent to this isolated track should not appear on the rest of the layout. The other option is to remove all other locomotives from the track before performing the programming sequence. When programming the deocders it is wise to write down the final settings for each decoder you program so that if something goes wrong you can refer back to the values and reenter them (as it happened to me since I forgot that I hade a second locomotive on the layout and it got reprogrammed when it should not have, I did have the values written down and the fix was quick and simple).
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Davy		#18 Posted : 16 October 2005 16:14:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		The decoder is not regulated. But the loc will drive with the new five star engine a lot better.
		M-track with a CS2.
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frost242		#19 Posted : 16 October 2005 16:34:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 60		erm... Can someone explain what is a regulated decoder ? :/
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Maxi		#20 Posted : 16 October 2005 16:57:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 757 Location: Wawa, Ontario		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by frost242 <br />erm... Can someone explain what is a regulated decoder ? :/ A regulated decoder refers to the ability of the locomotive maitaining speed when pulling a number of railcars up or down a grade. Without load regulation the locomotive would slow down when travelling up a grade and speed up when travelling down a grade. With load regulation the speed of the locomotive is more consistent when going up or down a grade.
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frost242		#21 Posted : 16 October 2005 17:02:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 60		Ok, thanks a lot Maxi.
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Sander van Wijk		#22 Posted : 16 October 2005 17:49:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		I'm sad to hear that it's not a regulated decoder. Anyway, it's almost worth buying just for the motor parts. I think it's not a problem to use the decoder for a shunting loco for example. Since for these locos the major characteristic is power while running low speed.
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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perz		#23 Posted : 16 October 2005 21:04:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I think it's not a problem to use the decoder for a shunting loco for example. Since for these locos the major characteristic is power while running low speed. I would say the opposite. It's at low speed you see the most advantages with load regulation.
		WWW
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Sander van Wijk		#24 Posted : 16 October 2005 21:53:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		OOps... Guess you're right...
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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DasBert33		#25 Posted : 16 October 2005 23:15:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,273		Where does the info about it being load regulated come from?
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Sander van Wijk		#26 Posted : 16 October 2005 23:22:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />Where does the info about it being load regulated come from? Good question. I would also like to know that. (Not that I doubt your source, Davy, but anyway...)
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Tony		#27 Posted : 17 October 2005 10:50:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 726 Location: Cape Town		Hi guys - interesting news. I am no expert regarding decoders[:I], but I would be surprised[:0] why Marklin would supply a decoder these days without load regulation - especially since all the other decoder kits (from 60901 - 60904/5) for older locos have load regulation??
		Regards Tony
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foumaro		#28 Posted : 17 October 2005 17:14:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece		An old Greek saying:"Dogs eating the cheap meat".
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kgsjoqvist		#29 Posted : 17 October 2005 18:23:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		Well, for that price it's worth trying. I have 2 delta locos with drum collector, certainly the perfect victims for experiments... Especially since I can use the Delta decoders to upgrade a couple of my older locos!
		K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Davy		#30 Posted : 17 October 2005 19:42:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kgsjoqvist <br />Well, for that price it's worth trying. I have 2 delta locos with drum collector, certainly the perfect victims for experiments... Especially since I can use the Delta decoders to upgrade a couple of my older locos! I had the same idea, upgrading the Swiss delta loc out a starterkit and a delta E19. I have two sets in order.
		M-track with a CS2.
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Guus		#31 Posted : 17 October 2005 22:54:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi all, It's been suggested in a German forum on Märklin that the decoder is identical to a ESU-LokpilotII. The question remains however whether M has implemented all options of the original ESU decoder.Supposedly the load regulation on this decoder can be deactivated! Well I hope I haven't created more questions than answers [:I]. Best regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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dudok12		#32 Posted : 27 October 2005 13:40:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 152 Location: Eindhoven,		Hi all, Has anyone seen this decoder in a shop yet? I ordered 2, but I am not happy with the idea that these decoders lack load regulation... This could mean they drive as poorly as delta's, with clearly visible jumps in speed, ugh. They only difference I can think of would be that the motor has more pulling power. I hoped the decoder would be similar to that in the Fire brigade starter set V100, which has a jumper-less decoder with only switchable lights, but it does have load regulation...
		IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago...
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hmsfix		#33 Posted : 27 October 2005 15:47:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,383 Location: Darmstadt,		Hi, To get an impression how the high propulsion motor works if there is no load regulation simply run a fx lok (with 6090x decoder, x=1,2,3,4) in analogic AC mode. Then there is no load regulation possible even for load regulated loks. I tested this with my F7 and the PA. My feeling is that the behaviour is not as good as in the digital mode where load regulation is active. For the F7 (converted with 60903 set), tractive power in AC mode is not much better than for a lok with Delta or conventional AC motor. However, the PA also runs fine in analogic AC mode. I have my doubts on a conversion with the 60760 set, but probably it depends on the lok. Hans Martin
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Davy		#34 Posted : 27 October 2005 17:05:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		A loc with a five star engine will drive better at lower speed in AC mode. I know this because a lot of mine five star locs have driven on a AC clubtrack.
		M-track with a CS2.
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dudok12		#35 Posted : 27 October 2005 21:18:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 152 Location: Eindhoven,		My biggest problem with the absence of load regulation is that there are 'speed jumps' visible when a loc accelerates. This is because the speed steps in the digital world are discrete. AFAIK load regulation smoothes the transition from one speedstep to the next, as if the lok has infinite speed steps. BTW, I have asked the folks from Marklin, the Netherlands, to confirm that this cheapo decoder is without load regulation. I will post the reply once I have it.
		IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago...
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Timaximus		#36 Posted : 27 October 2005 22:16:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		I ordered 2 (one reserve) for upgrading a "Start set" loc with DELTA. I can't throw gifts away, can I?
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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perz		#37 Posted : 27 October 2005 22:45:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		I think the worst problem with locos without speed regulation is that if you set them to run at low speed, you can not be sure they run at all.
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Hoffmann		#38 Posted : 28 October 2005 00:38:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hi all, Marklin U.S. states that this decoder is load regulated ( when asked are you 100% sure ??????? ). My Contact said if a decoder has acceleration and brake control it is load regulated. When I receive the first one I will program it with the ESU loc-programer and find out. Martin P.S. So far over 15 000 (fifteenthousend) of this Kit have been ordered
		marklin-eh
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perz		#39 Posted : 28 October 2005 00:56:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:My Contact said if a decoder has acceleration and brake control it is load regulated. A good reason to not trust him/her. There are several Märklin models with adjustable acceleration and brake delay but without load regulation.
		WWW
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perz		#40 Posted : 28 October 2005 01:18:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Anyway, Märklin now actually claims it is regulated, on their faq pages: http://www.maerklin.de/faq/show...;sb=5&o=&fpart=1 I think this is official enough.
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kgsjoqvist		#41 Posted : 28 October 2005 17:35:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz <br />Anyway, Märklin now actually claims it is regulated, on their faq pages: http://www.maerklin.de/faq/show...;sb=5&o=&fpart=1 I think this is official enough. I think there is a confusion about what a regulated decoder can do. The term "load regulated" is often used - but in fact "speed regulated" is more accurate. In Märklin FAQ page it states that this decoder is regulated, since it has accelaration and brake delay. This is a major difference from Delta decoders. But truely "speed regulated" or "load regulated" decoders should also handle some kind of feedback from the motor. If the train climbs a steep grade, the decoder notices that the speed decrease - as a result there is less current. Then the decoder should give a little more power to keep a constant speed. Downhill the situation is opposite.
		K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Davy		#42 Posted : 29 October 2005 00:04:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		I think it is just the same decoder, which Marklin puts in her new hobbylocs.
		M-track with a CS2.
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steventrain		#43 Posted : 29 October 2005 11:22:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom		Yeah,it can use for all hobby locos!
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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dudok12		#44 Posted : 29 October 2005 22:21:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 152 Location: Eindhoven,		I was assuming/guessing it would be the same decoder as currently used in the V100 from the Feuerwehr set. Downside is that this decoder is very sensitive to dirty rails... If it is this decoder, this thing has load regulation, as it pushes with all its might when stopped with your finger at slow speed. A delta just halts with this test...
		IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago...
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dudok12		#45 Posted : 21 November 2005 14:15:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 152 Location: Eindhoven,		According to Maerklin Webnews (11/2005), the first 60760 sets will be delivered in a few days, but demand is high. It may take some weeks before every dealer has them. Meanwhile, the instruction leaflet can be found on the Insider pages. http://www.maerklin.de/clubs/insider/
		IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago...
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Olav		#46 Posted : 24 November 2005 14:06:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 111 Location: ,		I have 20 on order for €29,95 a piece :) Best regards olav
		WWW
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GabrielS		#47 Posted : 29 November 2005 15:51:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2005(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: ,		Hi! I dont think the 60760 decoder is identical to a ESU-LokpilotII. At the site http://stummi.foren-city...t-noch-ner-funktion.html it is a picture of the decoder. This decoder dosnt look as an ESU decoder. Best regards Gabriel
		Gabriel Slørdahl Balestrand, Norway Märklin C-tracks, Tams Easy Control, Norwegian III-V
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Davy		#48 Posted : 29 November 2005 18:05:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		The man has tested also some things. It does not have a alzheimer effect. It is a decoder out of the hobby class serie.
		M-track with a CS2.
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Hemmerich		#49 Posted : 06 December 2005 19:42:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Well, not completely correct. The retrofit decoder is very similar to the one in #37510, but really "almost" identical to that of #36880. And without any doubts, these decoders all have load regulation. That information was available from Märklin for some time already, thus there was't really any need to rip off the cover from the 60760; neither was it any secret that this decoder would have at least one extra function - which is used at the upper named model to switch the blinking roof light. However, the supplier is the same as for the decoders in the Hobby Locos. There was also never anything said about this retrofit decoder being supplied by ESU, except by some people who didn't know much about it. Regards, Lutz PS: pics of the 36880 decoder below.
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perz		#50 Posted : 06 December 2005 21:43:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Lutz, Can you read the type code on the processor (the 14-pin component on the upper picture)? I can see it is a Microchip (TM) component, it would be interesting to know which one.
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