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Offline Gregor  
#1 Posted : 06 December 2004 21:35:51(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

The possibilities of my small test track are reaching the limits, so it's time for the real stuff. Early next year I hope to start working on a layout, which will need about 10 boosters.

Now I'm wondering what would be the best way to let the control software know that there is a short circuit. Because when this happens, it has to pause the program. I've thought of 2 options:

Option 1: Each booster has a short circuit detection, it's possible to combine the signals with some logic circuitry into one overall short circuit signal.
Option 2: Connect each power section to a S88, and let the program check if all sections are powered
Option 3: Suggestions ??

How are you dealing with this, fellow Forum members ??

Gregor



Offline rschaffr  
#2 Posted : 06 December 2004 21:39:03(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Gregor: Wow. I can't wait to see you layout plans! If you are going to need 10 boosters it is going to be HUGE. Can you post them for us to admire?
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Bart  
#3 Posted : 06 December 2004 22:57:16(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
You may want to check the documentation of the Littfinski Watchdog
http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/
*Bart
Offline Gregor  
#4 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:10:01(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

Ron, the digital layout is going to replace this analog layout, which you can see was never completed and is already partly demolished:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

It has 10 old trafo's, so I need 10 boosters, or some new, more powerfull trafo's and less boosters. Still need to do some price calculations on this.

Bart, thank you for the link, very useful, although I did not find the answer (yet) to my question.

Gregor
Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:17:15(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Gregor: Impressive. You might reduce the booster count by analyzing the max number of loads (loks/carriage lights/smoke generators, etc) on each branch served by your present trafos. You may be able to combine some of them without doing any additional wiring (just connect both sets to the same booster). You proably have that many trafos for control, not for load.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:18:56(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,578
Location: Australia
Aaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhhh... My house isn't even that big!!!!

That is just awesome..... Can Miss 5 and I come over to help?
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline rschaffr  
#7 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:19:27(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Bart (or anyone): That Littfinski site looks good. Anyone have experience with their products? I could order a number of them right now (was planning on ordering some Viessmann equivalents of k83's k84's and s88's this afternoon, as a matter of fact)
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:35:20(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,448
Location: Scotland
Gregor. How do you get into areas at the back of the layout. This is great work.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Gregor  
#9 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:43:06(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi again,

Ron, the old analog was fully automatic with contact switches, so no control. The 10 trafo's were purely for load (28 trains at that time). I will be able to cut down on boosters by cutting power to shadow station tracks, although I realy like the sight of lit trains in the tunnels.

Adrian, you and Miss 5 are more than welcome, there is no real layout yet in my house, but she can make a good start with my Miss 5 and Mister 4.

UserPostedImage

Bart and Ron, I have 1 k83-alternative from LDT, and it works absolutely fine.

David, there is 45 cm space around the layout for access. Another reason not to gain too much weight.

Best regards,
Gregor
Offline Bart  
#10 Posted : 06 December 2004 23:50:53(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
That Littfinski site looks good. Anyone have experience with their products?
No, but reportedly they're very good. And proud to serve what is probably the largest digital track on the continent:
http://www.miniatur-wunderland.de/html/framepage.htm

I particularly like their signal decoders (LS-DEC-DB) and I was about to order a large number, but now I'll rather wait for Littfinski to come with mfx-compatible stuff. Also Viessmann are in the process of introducing a new series of signal decoders with very smart analog inputs.

Sorry Gregor, to get off topic.
And I realize that your question may not be solved by the Watchdog.
Option 1 does make sense.
*Bart
Offline perz  
#11 Posted : 07 December 2004 01:31:34(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
The old 6017 boosters feed back a stop signal so if one booster detects an overload all segments are closed down. The stopped condition can be detected by the inactivation of the CTS signal in the communication between the interface and the computer. The control software should be able to detect this and you shouldn't need to make any special arrangements to make it work.

How this is going to work with the Central Station and the new generation of boosters not yet introduced is not clear, but I think it is most likely that it will work the same in this respect.

If you use Delta Control units as boosters a detected overload will not be fed back to the other units, so then you will need to design some kind of supervision system.
Offline Tony  
#12 Posted : 07 December 2004 10:07:54(UTC)
Tony

South Africa   
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 726
Location: Cape Town
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />Bart (or anyone): That Littfinski site looks good. Anyone have experience with their products?

Hi Ron

I have bought a number of items from LDT, however I have not used any of them at present - waiting for my phase 2 extention.

The products look well made and the web site has very detailed instruction/diagrams ( in English too!)wink - you can get some of the items as kits.
Their service is very good, however they do not communicate to you as the customer - the stuff just arrives. Everything I have bought has been exstock and arrived within a week.Cool

Waiting for a booster at present.
Regards Tony
Offline Chris Vella  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2004 11:32:04(UTC)
Chris Vella


Joined: 12/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 275
Location: Malta
Hey Gregor that is quite a layout you have therebiggrin. Couldn't you have converted that one to digitalwink

Chris
Offline xxup  
#14 Posted : 07 December 2004 11:48:49(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,578
Location: Australia
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />The old 6017 boosters ...


OLD! - mine is nearly brand new...

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />...feed back a stop signal so if one booster detects an overload all segments are closed down....


What happens is that when there is a short in any part of the booster circuit, the IB shows "SHORT BOOSTER 1" (or similar)... Makes fault finding a breeze for me..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline Gregor  
#15 Posted : 07 December 2004 13:57:55(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

After thinking again about the options, I'll settle for option 2: I will need 2x s88, but in return I know in which section to look for the short circuit.

And Chris, unfortunately the current layout is not in my home, but in my aunt's house. I have spent many hours on it with my uncle, and when he died, I inherited it, so I will have to rebuild it at my own place.

Gregor
Offline rschaffr  
#16 Posted : 07 December 2004 16:07:08(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Gregor:
It is a shame you have to demolish it. it is really a nice layout!

I just ordered some of the Littfinski modules. I'll let you know how they work out.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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