Hi: I just got an Intellibox and some Viessmann 5211 decoders. I was happily using them when all of a sudden the decoders would no longer work. When hooking them back up I noticed some sparking when plugging in to it a second time. After that it did not work, and I suspect it shorted out. My question is, should the decoder be so sensitive, or is this an indication of a faulty decoder?

Did you change the wiring lately?

I am using IB and six 5211 with no problems for about two years.

Hi Michael, all

I strogly agree with Kevin that you should never attemt doing any connections of any kind (especially digital) with power on, that is asking for trouble.

Cheers
Chris

One tradition with electrical engineers is the "Smoke Test".
1. turn power off.
2. Add some component or circuit (in this case 5211/k83)
3. turn on power and look for smoke[:0].



As a friend said to me once,
"All electronics works on smoke. Let the smoke out, the thing stops working."

I have no idea about the Roco relays, but the Viessmann 5222 relays work fine with 5211 and k83.

I also used some Atlas snap relays. (2xUM) Worked fine until a lok stopped over a contact track and fried the relay with steady current. [:(]

Hi Michael

Good to hear that your 5211 was not fried.About your purchase of the 5231-decoders I have to say that my experience of those decoders could have been better.I bought eight of those decoders two years ago and I have not been satisfied with them.The problem that occured to me was that some of the decoders were setting themselves into programming mode when I was operating <u>another</u> switch.The adress of those decoders are not set by a dip-switch as it is on Märklin-decoders,instead the adress is set from the Keyboard/IB.
Imagine yourself having eighth decoders and when you operate one of them another one is setting itself in programming mode! You just hear three "clicks" from a switch and if you are lucky you know from what switch it came and can type in the right address on the Keyboard/IB immediately since what you type in will be the address for the decoder.If you were not lucky you didn´t find out which decoder that was set in a programming mode,in that case you had to use the trial and error method to find out which of the switches/decoders that needed to be programmed again and take out the decoder from the switch to press the programming mode button on the decoder and then set the right address.As you understand that was very unpractical in the long run so I have replaced all my Viessmann 5231-decoders with Märklin instead.
I don´t know if someone else in this forum have had the same experience as I had with the 5231-decoders.

Regards

Mats P

Hi Michael,
I had similar problems with some of my second-hand 5211s. I would guess that replacing the transistor of that particular output may solve your problem. Each red and green output socket is fed by one power transistor, 8 in total. Following the printed circuit from the defective output will easily identify the bad guy.
It's a BD680: a 50 cents repair.

The 5211 needs a yellow wire from the signal as well as the red/green light change plugs from the signal.

It also needs two reds (one is plugged into the E) and a brown - the wiring diagram is with the 5211.

Also you must have a brown (earth) plugged into the (soleniod type) signal.

After you get the lights to work then you need to play with the minimum button press duration to get the decoder to change the lights from red to green etc..

Hi McLae,all,



This only applies to light signals,...not the old timer ones

Update on my earlier question about Viessmann LED signals and the 5211 decoder.

I just have had a case of the stupids! [xx(]
The Viessmann 4000 series LED signals OF COURSE have to have solenoids to operate. Plugging them straight into the Viessman 5211 decoder did nothing, since the decoder only provides momentary contacts.

As I went to bed thinking about my posting on this site, I realized the obvious answer: the next morning I connected my ROCO relay to the Viessmann decoder, connected the ROCO relay to ground, connected the yellow lead to power, and the two green's to the ROCO relay and IT WORKED - including the read switch in the track.

So, NEVER MIND and have a Happy New Year. I resolve to be a smarter modeller in 2004

Peter Neumann
Florida

Craigerics,
electrically, the 5211 aren't "Daisychained" also if they physically are. Red to red and brown to brown are connected inside. But it's a good idea to keep the length of cable the current must travel short.

/Lars

Lars and Kimmo,
thank you for the timely responses.
Lars: if I keep the current configuration (daisy-chained), if one 5211 becomes inoperable, does that effect the connection too the subsequent 5211s down the chain? if so, maybe the distro strip is the way to go?
thanks
Craig

Hi all,
If you use the 5211's E-socket for feeding separate power to the turnouts, I would not be worried at all about signal strength for the electronics of the decoders when daisy-chained. A separate yellow wire to each E-socket (which can't be daisy-chained anyway) from a distributor may be a better investment than rewiring red & brown.

I am using this thread to post another question about 5211.

I bought several Viessmann signals, and four more 5211's to drive them digitally. Everything is now wired and works fine. But the following question crossed my mind.

I have a separate 32 VA trafo + booster (old delta unit) for accessories like turnouts and signals, all via 5211's. Viessman signals like 4500 have a separate feed for lights (separate from the solenoid feed). So what I did was to wire the solenoid feed from 5211 output, but the light feed directly from the yellow output of that 32 VA trafo. Since all 5211's are also fed from that same trafo, but through the booster, I understand that I am not actually "saving" any digital power, since it still loads the same trafo.

So my question is, was there any advantage/disadvantage to do it this way, rather than simply connecting the light feed also to the yellow output of the 5211, together with the solenoid feed of the same signal. One thing that I was worried was that while the solenoids only draw power through 5211 when they move, the lights would have drawn power all the time. So I didn't know if that was OK or not with 5211.

But the main reason why I did it this way was that in the future I may need more lighting power and may get yet another trafo for that purpose alone. When that happens, I can now just move the main wire feeding the signal lights from the current trafo to the new one, and get the lights really separated from the digital feed at that time, without rewiring anything.

That is actually an interesting point. Now I have one 52VA trafo for the track via 6021, and one 32VA trafo for the accessories via delta booster. And as mentioned, in the future I may add third trafo for lighting circuit. All have common ground.

Could all these trafo's be replaced with one big trafo, let say 150VA, by directly connecting it to all three circuits (6021, delta booster, lights distribution bar)? Or does the trafo output first need to be divided into three separated outputs with some electronics to limit the power in each output to the level the corresponding equipment can take (I am thinking the max amps of 6021 and delta unit here)?

Hi everybody,
In regards to power for turnout decoders, this is my opinion:
With C turnouts fed by AC there is an inherent risk of damage to the output transistors of the IB / 6021, should the metal box of the turnout touch the pukos plate of the turnout AND the track corresponding to the yellow wire on the printed circuit board (at the connector's end) of the motor. This happened to me and I had to replace both output transistors of my IB.
So now I have all my 5211s fed thru an old 6015 booster, but there is still a cheaper solution: use an old Delta Control as a booster to feed the turnout decoders.
Take into account that when you have digital turnouts, they are driven ONE AT A TIME by the system, so a Delta fed by a 32VA trafo is enough. I implemented this option in a layout of a friend of mine and it works very well.
However, those who prefer to use AC for turnouts (digitally or conventionally driven) should isolate the turnout motor from the pukos plate to avoid a potential damage to the system.
Hope this could help.
Regards,

Hello everybody,

I am bringing this old thread back again, as I plan to change my layour wiring as Lars suggested in the quote above. But I would like to hear your comments on the following.

The reason of the change is, that I am now adding street and building lights, so I want to create own circuit for them. And I got two extra trafos with a bargain price, one 32VA with voltage regulator, and one 52VA without voltage regulator. And as mentioned earlier in this thread, I currently have one 32VA trafo with voltage regulator feeding all solenoid asseccories via a delta booster. So I plan to do following:

Put the new 52VA trafo to feed the delta booster. By doing that I can use two 32VA trafos to create two lighting circuits, which can be dimmed separately, as both of these 32VA trafos are equipped with voltage regulators. This gives a total of 4A power for lighting, which is enough for my current needs.

But my question is, that since the delta booster is limited to 2A current, and the new trafo can supply more than that, do I need to add a fuse or some other protection between the new 52VA trafo and delta booster? In principle, the fact that the trafo has more capacity than is needed by the delta booster is good, as this trafo also feeds the signal lights via a separate cable, which doesn't go through the booster.

And another question: When creating the lighting circuit, is there any point to connect these two lighting trafos to the common ground with everything else, or should I keep them separate?

Thanks,

Thanks for the info, Jorge. My dependable friend!

Any comment on the common ground question? Does it add any value in the lighting circuit, which will have nothing else connected than light bulbs?

I agree with Lars, keeping a separate circuit will reduce shorts risk. Remember that if you have by chance an AC wire connected to the RED wire of your Digital Central, it will get fried, provided both grounds are connected together. The output transistors will burn.
Regards,