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Offline kskato  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2013 23:17:42(UTC)
kskato


Joined: 11/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Wichita Ks
So doing a search it looks like MFX+ is for CS2 customers for a cab view/control of the Loco ?

Most informative I found was ;
The new mfx+ in the electric BR101
• Equipped with the new mfx digital decoder +.
• Game mode in addition beginner, advanced and professional mode.
• Simulated resource consumption.
• Realistic handling characteristics such as steady ride.
• Simulated cab display in the Central Station 2
• control of the model cab mode on the touch screen of the Central Station 2
• These new features are only available in conjunction with the Central Station 2 with firmware version 2.5 available

Does it offer anything for non-CS2 owners ?

I hope this isn't the Technik-Spielen-Faszination "new technology"


Howard
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2013 23:43:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,439
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I think you've pretty much got all the information there is for now!

Are you hoping for some other "new technology" instead? This looks pretty impressive to me.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline franciscohg  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2013 23:51:21(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,179
Location: Patagonia
it would be nice if you could update the firmware of Mld and MsD......
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline mbarreto  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2013 00:43:23(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 855
Originally Posted by: kskato Go to Quoted Post


....
I hope this isn't the Technik-Spielen-Faszination "new technology"
...


It is part of it, I think.


I also want to know if it has cab graphics for the non mfx+ locos. seems not to be very difficult to do. Off course here we wouldn't have the several levels (game, pro, etc).

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 16 January 2013 02:30:19(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
it would be nice if you could update the firmware of Mld and MsD......


Please elaborate, you can do updates currently
Peter
Offline kskato  
#6 Posted : 16 January 2013 03:16:24(UTC)
kskato


Joined: 11/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Wichita Ks
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I think you've pretty much got all the information there is for now!

Are you hoping for some other "new technology" instead? This looks pretty impressive to me.


Not instead , if you don't have a CS2, its a ' doesn't have anything to do with me ' .
No 'Technik-Spielen-Faszination' for the rest of us.

MS1, CS1, MS2 & 6021 users are left out.

Might be able to do something with the new m 8# decoders.
Signals are something to look forward to, besides any Locs & cars a person wants.

Oh, a modern replacement for the 7244 would be nice. 29,95 € / $40.00 for 1950 technology is a bit much.BigGrin
Maybe a M* labeled Relay that Viessmann had. Last time I looked it was unavailable.

Howard
Offline franciscohg  
#7 Posted : 16 January 2013 04:29:15(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,179
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
it would be nice if you could update the firmware of Mld and MsD......


Please elaborate, you can do updates currently


i mean if the current mfx decoders will be able to manage this (+) , out of the box or trough a firmware update. or we will need a bunch of new decoders?
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline clapcott  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2013 06:55:03(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
it would be nice if you could update the firmware of Mld and MsD......


Please elaborate, you can do updates currently


i mean if the current mfx decoders will be able to manage this (+) , out of the box or trough a firmware update. or we will need a bunch of new decoders?

Ah, I concur.

I "observe" that LokShop actually re-posted their entries for 6094x (e.g. as 060940 Special) under "2013 New items".
To me this means that the newly shipped items might have newer features and, because of the use of the same product number, probably update-able.

We live in hope

Peter
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 16 January 2013 07:20:14(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kskato Go to Quoted Post
Oh, a modern replacement for the 7244 would be nice. 29,95 € / $40.00 for 1950 technology is a bit much.BigGrin
Maybe a M* labeled Relay that Viessmann had. Last time I looked it was unavailable.


The 7244 is cited in the details for the 60841. But even though the 60841 is listed at 60% the price of the 60840, I still don't think it is worth it as the outputs are only SPDT and rated at less than 2 amps (5 amps for the 4).

Have you considered a latching relay as a replacement?
4PDT are a bit more expensive but you can use the more common DPDT for those situations that don't need 4 circuits.

examples in the US (USD) (ignore the "representative image" - but check the datasheet)
4PDT 14.70 http://www.galco.com/buy...Electronics/R40-17D2-24C
DPDT 7.60 http://www.galco.com/buy...Electronics/R40-11D2-24C
most of these component guys will have price breaks for quantity...

Personally I would suggest adding a couple of BackEMF diodes for protection if you are using a k83 to drive
Peter
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Offline Joseph Meiring  
#10 Posted : 16 January 2013 08:53:03(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I think you've pretty much got all the information there is for now!

Are you hoping for some other "new technology" instead? This looks pretty impressive to me.

Very impressive to me indeedThumpUp ...but, I think utilising "new technology" to get turnout mechanisms 74490/74491 to work reliably/constantly would be a REAL step forward by Mother Marklin...what sayeth fellow Marklinists?!?Sneaky
Joe
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 16 January 2013 09:29:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
IMHO mfx+ is an attempt in psychological obsolescence (one form of planned obsolescence). Those who buy the new locos may also buy a new CS2 to try the cab control. Those who have a CS2 will be tempted to buy one of the new locos to try cab control.
I use LokSim3d (www.loksim3d.de) to play with realistic cab control (without risking scratches on my model locos).

They now have cheap sound decoders and so they use sound in every model (planned obsolescence of former "silent" models). Old moulds, old liveries, but now with sound. I'll skip those.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 16 January 2013 18:42:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
I prefer to see pictures of my locomotivs and speedlimit at CS2 instead of cab control.
Of course...service hour too to see locomotiv step up before to next service.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline kskato  
#13 Posted : 16 January 2013 19:48:32(UTC)
kskato


Joined: 11/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Wichita Ks
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kskato Go to Quoted Post
Oh, a modern replacement for the 7244 would be nice. 29,95 € / $40.00 for 1950 technology is a bit much.BigGrin
Maybe a M* labeled Relay that Viessmann had. Last time I looked it was unavailable.


The 7244 is cited in the details for the 60841. But even though the 60841 is listed at 60% the price of the 60840, I still don't think it is worth it as the outputs are only SPDT and rated at less than 2 amps (5 amps for the 4).

Have you considered a latching relay as a replacement?
4PDT are a bit more expensive but you can use the more common DPDT for those situations that don't need 4 circuits.

examples in the US (USD) (ignore the "representative image" - but check the datasheet)
4PDT 14.70 http://www.galco.com/buy...Electronics/R40-17D2-24C
DPDT 7.60 http://www.galco.com/buy...Electronics/R40-11D2-24C
most of these component guys will have price breaks for quantity...

Personally I would suggest adding a couple of BackEMF diodes for protection if you are using a k83 to drive


Thanks clapcott ,will look into the latching relays.
I guess the 7244 cited in the details for the 60841 is one of my Technik-Spielen-Faszination "new technology" then.


Offline Nielsenr  
#14 Posted : 16 January 2013 20:47:54(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 882
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Howard,

Another DPDT latching relay is TE Connectivity D3066. Here are two links to suppliers here in the US. I have used these with K83 style devices from LDT and they work great. I can control a stop block and a braking module with one K83 output. I can also say I have bought from both vendors. The price at Mouser for 25 @$2.59 each is a good price ...

Digi-Key

http://www.digikey.com/product-.../D3066/PB1115-ND/1634001

Mouser

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDe...ZMuHTYi1bHPYEM7dNYRcsl9A

Good luck!!

Robert
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Offline kskato  
#15 Posted : 16 January 2013 21:33:43(UTC)
kskato


Joined: 11/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Wichita Ks
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
IMHO mfx+ is an attempt in psychological obsolescence (one form of planned obsolescence). Those who buy the new locos may also buy a new CS2 to try the cab control. Those who have a CS2 will be tempted to buy one of the new locos to try cab control.
I use LokSim3d (www.loksim3d.de) to play with realistic cab control (without risking scratches on my model locos).

They now have cheap sound decoders and so they use sound in every model (planned obsolescence of former "silent" models). Old moulds, old liveries, but now with sound. I'll skip those.


WoW, And I'm a 'Negative Nellie' with my " Not Impressed. I don't own a CS2 _ no Technik-Spielen-Faszination for me attitude " Laugh

Just Kidding ya sir. BigGrin

Actually the ... ( "cheap sound decoders and so they use sound in every model (planned obsolescence of former "silent" models ... ...) "
may be the only thing M* is doing for Plebeians like me. Wink

Howard

Offline Dimi194  
#16 Posted : 17 January 2013 23:28:44(UTC)
Dimi194

Australia   
Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 343
Location: South Coast, NSW
This is going to sound stupid, but does cab control mean that you see the inside of the locomotive's cab, like in Train Simulator? If so, what do you see through the windows of the loco... not your layout, surely?
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person!
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 17 January 2013 23:40:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
not your layout, surely?
Surely not (I dare say). The CS2 may know your track plan (but only simplified), but it does not know where the loco is.
There is no camera in the loco - if there was one, mfx would be too slow to transfer images in real-time. So most likely you'll see a static image or a very simple animation that depends on the speed setting of the loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 19 January 2013 10:00:59(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
not your layout, surely?
Surely not (I dare say). The CS2 may know your track plan (but only simplified), but it does not know where the loco is.



With Rail Com you can see where loco is via contact(indication).
But not with CS2.
I see this waste of time and unnecessary anyway.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

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Offline steventrain  
#19 Posted : 19 January 2013 10:10:05(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,744
Mfx plus locomotives 2013 delivery date.

37764 - JANUARY
37768 - Q2
39644 - Q2
39233 - FEBRUARY
37956 - Q3
39850 - Q4
37358 - FEBRUARY
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Goofy  
#20 Posted : 19 January 2013 10:19:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Mfx plus locomotives 2013 delivery date.

37764 - JANUARY
37768 - Q2
39644 - Q2
39233 - FEBRUARY
37956 - Q3
39850 - Q4
37358 - FEBRUARY


That was fast to delivery!
But what about to upgrade CS2 to 2.5?
When will this been happens...?

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 19 January 2013 10:19:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Mfx plus locomotives 2013 delivery date.
Cab control comes with version 2.5 of the CS2 software. So the locos may hit the shelves before the new software will be out.
The brochure only mentions "2013" (no month, not even quarter specified).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Laxman  
#22 Posted : 19 January 2013 15:36:58(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
Howard,

Another DPDT latching relay is TE Connectivity D3066. Here are two links to suppliers here in the US. I have used these with K83 style devices from LDT and they work great. I can control a stop block and a braking module with one K83 output. I can also say I have bought from both vendors. The price at Mouser for 25 @$2.59 each is a good price ...

Digi-Key

http://www.digikey.com/product-.../D3066/PB1115-ND/1634001

Mouser

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDe...ZMuHTYi1bHPYEM7dNYRcsl9A

Good luck!!

Robert


Robert

I have used the Viessmann relays with no problems, but they are expensive. Where do you get a schematic of one of these relays so you know how to wire it. The Viessmann ones are pretty clearly marked with which inputs (pins) are the switching part of relay and which ones are the load side?

Thanks

Laxman
Offline Nielsenr  
#23 Posted : 19 January 2013 19:20:23(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 882
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Laxman,

If you go to the Digi-Key link I gave and scroll down a bit, you will see two datasheet links. Chose the second one. It is a TE Connectivity datasheet. Then look for the diagram for the bistable 2 coil version.

I have mounted these on pcbs and added screw terminals. I have made versions with one relay on a board and two relays on a board.

Here is a photo of a double board installed on my floor bahn modules. The relay board is on the bottom in the middle with the blue screw terminal strips. In this application, they relays are driven by a LDT K83 equivalent which is on the far left. The white pcbs on either side of the relay board are a version of a braking module that uses a current limiting transistor so a transition section of the track is not required. The DPDT relay uses one pole to control a stop section and the other pole controls the braking module. Since I have two relays, they each control one stop/brake section from a separate K83 output.

UserPostedImage

Btw, the LDT K83 was purchased in kit form. Since I made a large enough order the last time I ordered from LDT, they removed the VAT and if I remember correctly, they cost me about $18 a piece. So add the cost of 4 relays, some terminal strips and some pcbs, they probably cost me just over $30 to get a K84 with DPDT relays. I think that is a pretty good deal.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Robert
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Offline danmarklinman  
#24 Posted : 20 January 2013 20:20:22(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by: kskato Go to Quoted Post
So doing a search it looks like MFX+ is for CS2 customers for a cab view/control of the Loco ?

Most informative I found was ;
The new mfx+ in the electric BR101
• Equipped with the new mfx digital decoder +.
• Game mode in addition beginner, advanced and professional mode.
• Simulated resource consumption.
• Realistic handling characteristics such as steady ride.
• Simulated cab display in the Central Station 2
• control of the model cab mode on the touch screen of the Central Station 2
• These new features are only available in conjunction with the Central Station 2 with firmware version 2.5 available

Does it offer anything for non-CS2 owners ?

I hope this isn't the Technik-Spielen-Faszination "new technology"


Howard


I have not been interrested before in getting the cs2, But now i amDrool Doas any one know if any decoders for MFX+ will be availble or have i got it wroung and you can use standard MFX with the firmware version 2.5! Please tell meLOL i want oneDrool BigGrin
Marklin / ESU SNCF/SNCB , Marklin/Brawa wagons and some others
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#25 Posted : 20 January 2013 21:16:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,718
Location: New Zealand
The only announcement is of the 7 or so locos with mfx+ decoders pre-installed, there is no mention of any retrofitable mfx+ decoder kit. Standard mfx decoders will not work with the cab control features of software version 2.5
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Offline Laxman  
#26 Posted : 23 January 2013 18:59:50(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
Laxman,

If you go to the Digi-Key link I gave and scroll down a bit, you will see two datasheet links. Chose the second one. It is a TE Connectivity datasheet. Then look for the diagram for the bistable 2 coil version.

I have mounted these on pcbs and added screw terminals. I have made versions with one relay on a board and two relays on a board.

Here is a photo of a double board installed on my floor bahn modules. The relay board is on the bottom in the middle with the blue screw terminal strips. In this application, they relays are driven by a LDT K83 equivalent which is on the far left. The white pcbs on either side of the relay board are a version of a braking module that uses a current limiting transistor so a transition section of the track is not required. The DPDT relay uses one pole to control a stop section and the other pole controls the braking module. Since I have two relays, they each control one stop/brake section from a separate K83 output.

UserPostedImage

Btw, the LDT K83 was purchased in kit form. Since I made a large enough order the last time I ordered from LDT, they removed the VAT and if I remember correctly, they cost me about $18 a piece. So add the cost of 4 relays, some terminal strips and some pcbs, they probably cost me just over $30 to get a K84 with DPDT relays. I think that is a pretty good deal.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Robert


Robert

Thanks. I will study it and get back with any questions, although I am not sure I fully understand the set/reset part of the diagram.

Laxman
Offline Nielsenr  
#27 Posted : 23 January 2013 23:35:28(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 882
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Laxman,

I have attached a simple wiring diagram. Hopefully this will explain the connections better.

UserPostedImage

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

Robert
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Offline clapcott  
#28 Posted : 28 January 2013 09:43:09(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
back on topic...

I came across the following on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4rklin_Digital)

Introduced in 2013 is the new mfx+ digital control system, which expands on mfx by allowing signals to communicate with mfx+ equipped locomotives. These are then passed on the Control Station 2 where they are acknowledged by the operator.

Unlikely to be a Marklin journalist as they would never use the term "Control Station" of even "Central Station 2" (instead pedantically sticking to Central Station 60213/60214/60215)

While I am aware that generally the more technical the entry in Wikipedia the more salt that needs to accompany it, there are occasionally some nuggets that focus ones research. The bit that stood out was "allowing signals to communicate with mfx+ equipped locomotives"

This might indicate how Marklin is planning to leverage the traditional isolated section associated with a signal (usually off / on) by having the signal inject its ID so that a loco(decoder) in the section can on-send a message to the Central Station like "I am loco 'xyz' and am in the vicinity of signal 'jkl' "

While I applaud the ROI concept of having modelers able to update their layouts (electronically) without relaying track, I am wondering if...
- with a longer section the same transmission from the signal could identify to the loco that the signal is red(Hp0) and cause an automatic slow down to stop or even amber(Hp2) to just reduce speed.
- no doubt this is part of the mechanism that assists the "game" in specialist mode to disable a locomotive (crawl mode) as per the statement "You need a fully wired layout ...."
- by means of electric current draw, if maybe for non mFX= locos, the signal could detect any loco and do something with the information. (This is the biggest drawback with something like LISSY, where ALL the locos need to equipped with a transmitter).

Oh well, probably just wishful thinking but the potential is enormous!
We should find out officially by the end of the week. (Nürnberg)








Peter
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H0
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 28 January 2013 11:54:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
I came across the following on Wikipedia
It's the first MRR related post of the author who wrote about mfx+. Is this inside information or wishful thinking? Time will tell.
Does the CS2 receive feedback from a loco stopped by a braking module? Or does the braking module prevent the mfx feedback from passing through?

The same article (but written by another contributor) also reads "Eventually booster 60173 became available for use with any mfx system." AFAIK 60173 cannot be used with CS 60212.
The error rate of Wikipedia is said to be lower than that of printed encyclopaedias, but errors do occur.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Laxman  
#30 Posted : 29 January 2013 17:50:15(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
Laxman,

I have attached a simple wiring diagram. Hopefully this will explain the connections better.

UserPostedImage

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

Robert


Robert

Thanks for the diagram. A couple of questions if I may.

1) Can the yellow wires at 5 and 6 be switched with the blue wires (R & G) at 1 & 10.

2) Does an impulse from R to 1 cause 2/3 and 9/8 to close or 8/7 and 3/4? I assume the opposite is true of impulse from G to 10?

3) How do you know if 10 or 1 (R or G) closes NC or NO without experimenting?

4) I assume that since this is a latching "bistable" relay then it stays in whatever state it has attained after the impulse stops (either NC or NO) and not reset until the 'complimentary' impulse triggers it?

5) The data sheet from digi-key states 12vdc for the coils. Can these relays be used with ac current (like the blue and yellow wires from an analog set-up-- using an old marklin blue box to switch the relay--like the old solenoid signals)?

6) I have ordered these relays to try and make one of Huib Maaskant's braking modules; but I am not entirely sure how to fit this relay into his schematic or the PC board layout. Any thoughts or suggestions? I will likely use his schematic for signals with lights.

here is the link to his schematic Braking module schematic

and the link to his website Huib Maasknat's website

Thanks so much

Laxman
Offline Nielsenr  
#31 Posted : 29 January 2013 20:41:00(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 882
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Laxman,

I will try and answer you questions:

1) Yes, the yellow wires can be either connected to 1 and 10 or 5 and 6. I would have to check the relay diagram again, but changing them might reverse which of the red/green outputs from the K83 will do a set or a reset to the relay. Not a big problem.

2) As I re-look at one of my pcbs, applying a pulse at pin 1 causes a "reset", so the normally closed contacts, 2 to 3 and 8 to 9, are closed. Applying a pulse to pin 10 causes a "set" and the connections from 3 to 4 and from 7 to 8 are closed.

3) As I built my relay boards, I tested each one to insure it worked and I checked with a volt/ohm meter which pins were closed and which ones were open. I then marked the terminal connectors which one was R and G and which ones were normally open and normally closed. I then tried to make sure I built them all the same way. I still confirmed the operation of each one after it was built to make sure if was functioning properly. My relays boards are for generic use and not just for braking areas.

4) That is correct, they are bistable or latching relays. A small pulse to the set/reset moves the relay and it stays "latched" into that position until it receives the opposite set/reset pulse.

5) I use them with the output of a K83 (or equivalent) device. I have not tried to do so, but I would think it would function from a control box. Just make sure it is a control box that creates a pulse not an on/off switch, like a 72720 but not a 72730.

6) I am familiar with Huib's circuit. I looked at it closely for a long time when I first considered braking modules. Because I just didn't like the transition track, I found a braking module from Bogobit that did not need one. The problem is Bogobit won't ship to the USA. I can't say here how I worked through that problem, but the Bogogbit circuit works very well and I am completely satisfied with it. Back to your problem. Where the yellow and two blue wires come in to the relay is the coil. This is the Y R G wires in my diagram. Huib includes a diode to give just the positive pulse from the ac. I found it wasn't needed in my application, but it could be added to my Y wire. Right above the coil are the double pole double throws (DPDT) contacts. These are the two sets of normally open and normally closed contacts.

I hope this helps you.

Robert
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Offline steventrain  
#32 Posted : 09 February 2013 20:07:15(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,744
First 37764 mfx plus now on ebay.

The mfx plus loco came with extra instuction booklet for cab control.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline xxup  
#33 Posted : 09 February 2013 23:24:42(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 8,944
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
First 37764 mfx plus now on ebay.

The mfx plus loco came with extra instuction booklet for cab control.


I see it comes with rail joints sound... All my locos have a rail joints sound - it comes free with m-track.. LOL
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#34 Posted : 10 February 2013 10:51:40(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,718
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
First 37764 mfx plus now on ebay.

The mfx plus loco came with extra instuction booklet for cab control.


I did see that! Are you buying one Stephen?
Offline steventrain  
#35 Posted : 10 February 2013 11:38:05(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,744
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
First 37764 mfx plus now on ebay.

The mfx plus loco came with extra instuction booklet for cab control.


I did see that! Are you buying one Stephen?


No, I have order 37956 BR03.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline steventrain  
#36 Posted : 25 February 2013 17:55:01(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,744
37764 cab control on CS2.



Youtube English text also available, See topic how to do https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...-english.aspx#post388826

Edited by moderator 10 January 2014 20:16:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline danmarklinman  
#37 Posted : 25 February 2013 22:24:13(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
not your layout, surely?
Surely not (I dare say). The CS2 may know your track plan (but only simplified), but it does not know where the loco is.
There is no camera in the loco - if there was one, mfx would be too slow to transfer images in real-time. So most likely you'll see a static image or a very simple animation that depends on the speed setting of the loco.


Hello would you not be watching your locomotive run through the scenery you have carefully madeLOL I would not say that the sound decoders are cheap i am impressed by the station anouncements on my new models. They come complete with the french tune before the French voice anouncement!
Marklin / ESU SNCF/SNCB , Marklin/Brawa wagons and some others
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Offline NZMarklinist  
#38 Posted : 26 February 2013 05:21:35(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dimi194 Go to Quoted Post
not your layout, surely?
Surely not (I dare say). The CS2 may know your track plan (but only simplified), but it does not know where the loco is.
There is no camera in the loco - if there was one, mfx would be too slow to transfer images in real-time. So most likely you'll see a static image or a very simple animation that depends on the speed setting of the loco.


Indeed,
The CS2 IMHO only has a graphics generator in it's firmware, no video player. However if Cab Control can be viewed via the main Station App, or an update of it, on an I Pad then maybe realtime views out the cab window will be possible ThumpUp as has been demonstrated with the Roco system, remembering it is using the IPad anyway, but it does not have the feed back feature of MFX+ so no realtime game playing ThumbDown

If a few others like me, consider this good enough and switch their controller allegiances from ESU to CS2 it will be a winner for Marklin ThumpUp
And of course, that is what they intended. I have allways been sold on the main station app idea, so it is another plus for the CS2.

For my small layout where operations could soon become boring, I find the MFX+ idea emensly appealing ThumpUp
However, I am sitting on the fence at the moment Sneaky but it might be a short moment Wink Scared

Edited by user 26 February 2013 08:45:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline Goofy  
#39 Posted : 26 February 2013 07:22:16(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
When i notice how much you are forcement to change display at screen of CS2 it becomes boring.
You have stellwerk,locomotivs diagram and now cab control.
You are switching lot of screen display back and forward.
When i use MS2 i don´t need to do that.
I suppose it becomes too much to control CS2 and you are not focus so much on the layout to play it...instead you do with CS2. Laugh
CS2 has now becomes PC game! Laugh
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline H0  
#40 Posted : 26 February 2013 08:10:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
but it does not have the feed back feature of MFX+ so no realtime game playing ThumbDown
With CS2, part of the game takes place in the decoder (diesel, sand, water consumption), rest in the CS2.
With Z21 the whole game takes place in the controller. IMHO it makes no difference from the user's point of view (except that any loco can be used, no special decoder needed).

A real steamer can run 300 km (200 miles) before it needs fresh water (coal lasts much longer), a diesel can run 1000 km (600 miles) before it needs fuel. So with a "realtime" simulation, you hardly ever need water, coal, or diesel.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline NZMarklinist  
#41 Posted : 26 February 2013 09:44:32(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When i notice how much you are forcement to change display at screen of CS2 it becomes boring.
You have stellwerk,locomotivs diagram and now cab control.
You are switching lot of screen display back and forward.
When i use MS2 i don´t need to do that.
I suppose it becomes too much to control CS2 and you are not focus so much on the layout to play it...instead you do with CS2. Laugh
CS2 has now becomes PC game! Laugh



Yes Goofy,
A proper Central Station does keep one, on ones toes, to keep on top of everything. Thats why M bought out the "Main Station" App for IPads which I believe is a such good thing, as well as the ability to network more than one CS.

MS's are great for very small layouts, but make great extra throttles for a CS Wink ThumpUp
I only have/am building a smallish layout (2700 x 1500 plus a 1200 x 800 area for the TT and Roundhouse giving it an "L" shape) but it has a reasonable BTW, how about a 12 bay Roundhouse and just the other day, the Marklin Coaling Station, at least 22 turnouts (without the Schatten Bahnhoff) and I think the MFX+ game has enough appeal to make the layout a bit boring proof for the future, maybe me broke as well Scared Laugh
So I have to confess it has got my attention and may cause me to defect (excuse me please Tom Wink ) to a CS2. That being the case I will have to obtain a CS2, three boosters and four power supplies, not a bad little deal for M. Just what they wanted and why MFX+ has been made the way it is.
That said I will be looking for good reports from the forum, not BS from non Central Station owners !

I think our friend from Touch Cab is doing his customers and himself an injustice by trying to make a better Main Station (IPad) app for the CS2. he should stick with doing one for CS1-R & Ecos, maybe even Cab Control. If he did that he'd be on a winner, ESU would love him as well as me, and maybe Tom, and I wouldn't consider a new '64,'23, 101 or any other MFX+ lok where I have one or two allready ! let alone a new Controller.

Goofy get yourself a CS1-R at least if, you can't justify a newer colour screen CS2 or Ecos. (As I can't just at the moment Wink ) It will revolutionise your enjoyment of your trains and layout I promise you !ThumpUp

Edited by user 26 February 2013 15:44:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#42 Posted : 26 February 2013 10:34:43(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
but it does not have the feed back feature of MFX+ so no realtime game playing ThumbDown
With CS2, part of the game takes place in the decoder (diesel, sand, water consumption), rest in the CS2.
With Z21 the whole game takes place in the controller. IMHO it makes no difference from the user's point of view (except that any loco can be used, no special decoder needed).

A real steamer can run 300 km (200 miles) before it needs fresh water (coal lasts much longer), a diesel can run 1000 km (600 miles) before it needs fuel. So with a "realtime" simulation, you hardly ever need water, coal, or diesel.



Yeah well perhaps "real time" is a missnomer, but you know what I mean, we are all operating at 1/87th anyway Wink

The Z21/Ipad is just a fancy graphics display, that was born out of the need to create some sort of interface for the IPad screen and whilst it does facillitate control, the MFX+ idea also introduces the need for operator intervention, rather than just watching one's trains go by, not to mention that with a CS we do have a "proper controller", programmer, power booster, et al, as well ThumpUp

Whilst designed to capture the interest of the younger generation I can see it as bordom proofing my layout, particularly once it is more or less fully operational and finished scenery wise to a reasonable standard. cause when it comes to operating the trains, I find I get bored with them just circulating ! The need to call into the BTW for fuel, water and sand makes that more purposefull as well ! I will have sand available at the main line as there won't be catenary in the BTW Wink
The suggestion of signal interface, also adds a new dynamic to operation, I hope that is the case, but I can see that Marklin have got a dog by the tail with this thing and whilst it will cause some extra investment by current M fans, as a strategy to keep Marklin profitable, I can't blame them for that and think they should be praised, for not just sucking their thumbs when Roco bought out their control cab thing, but surpassing the idea with, what is MFX+, and the required operator intervention, which I hasten to add has optional levels of involvement.
I can't help but think again of the words from another thread's posting by young Daniel, who was aluding to the ridicule of younger MRR fans, by their peers, even in a joke book he has, which said; "What do model trains and breasts have in common" ? "They're both designed for children but usually only men get to play with them" Laugh
Seriously I do hope that guys of his generation do get with this MFX+ thing for what it is, and get into the hobby ThumpUp, instead of mindless Blushing playstations and the like ThumbDown
If there is any criticism of Marklin it should be for failing to come up with a catchy new name for what is MFX+ Glare

Edited by user 03 March 2013 07:55:26(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline H0  
#43 Posted : 27 February 2013 09:00:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
That being the case I will have to obtain a CS2, three boosters and four power supplies, not a bad little deal for M. Just what they wanted and why MFX+ has been made the way it is.
Good news for Märklin!

Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
That said I will be looking for good reports from the forum, not BS from non Central Station owners!
Well, you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.
There's a lot I miss when switching from CS1 reloaded to CS2.
There's nothing I miss when switching from CS2 to CS1 reloaded.

OTOH there are many happy CS2 owners, so enjoy your forthcoming CS2.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline NZMarklinist  
#44 Posted : 02 March 2013 06:37:35(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
[There's a lot I miss when switching from CS1 reloaded to CS2.
There's nothing I miss when switching from CS2 to CS1 reloaded.

OTOH there are many happy CS2 owners, so enjoy your forthcoming CS2.


Hi Tom thanks for that Unsure

I won't be getting rid of my CS1-R in any hurry, I intended to retain it for operating my Modules (when they're built) and indeed the whole AMC modular layout possibly, but will also run track power for them thru a booster Wink

I have yet to have an extensive play with a CS2 so I would/will, be jumping into the unknown Scared

All the operator complaints on this forum don't give a lot of confidence in buying a CS2 Glare

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#45 Posted : 02 March 2013 22:43:08(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
That being the case I will have to obtain a CS2, three boosters and four power supplies, not a bad little deal for M. Just what they wanted and why MFX+ has been made the way it is.
Good news for Märklin!



Yes, even with discounts and without Mwst it adds up to over 1100euro shipped Scared

Edited by user 03 March 2013 07:52:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline old toot  
#46 Posted : 03 March 2013 06:53:05(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
hi glen
re central station since they have upped the new version last year to 5 amp at customers request the
demand for boosters has dropped like a stone . The earlier were only 2.4 amp and looking as someone that worked the
electronic retail for 15 years i think it could be only a matter of time we will get to a a 5 to 7.5 amp power supply unit
with wireless receiver attached and we run the whole layout from an i pad .
Looking at what guys are thinking about through our shop its that sort of way people are expecting to be able to operate in the future
I see the new signals Marklin are making will come with MFX for automatic linkup, and with guys wanting stuff more and more plug and play
thats where we all have to go in the future.
marklin from what i can see have realised that most are not going to buy just single decoders for points hence the new range coming later this year, and from the selling point most are looking for units for 4 points in anyway so with the gap we have created our own 4 point decoder with simple switch id compatible with Marklins MS2 and Central station to sell for NZ59.00 and Dion is rolling these now off the production
along with his 4 lane hidden yard controller which the guys are loving
regards and the best way to pickup a central station is the mega pack
bryan old toot
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline Goofy  
#47 Posted : 09 March 2013 19:52:57(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,051
Today i did visit hobbystore in my hometown and see this new upgrade in the CS2.
And also diesel BR218 with mfx+.
It was okey...
But more work by control locomotiv(s).
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline clapcott  
#48 Posted : 10 March 2013 02:37:46(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,244
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It was okey...


Did you pickup any specific points of interest or concern ?
Peter
Offline NZMarklinist  
#49 Posted : 10 March 2013 04:00:10(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Today i did visit hobbystore in my hometown and see this new upgrade in the CS2.
And also diesel BR218 with mfx+.
It was okey...
But more work by control locomotiv(s).



Goofy,

"But more work by control locomotiv(s)"

If by that you mean more operator intervention, then that is the whole point of "Cab Control" Wink Smile

edit; Peter; please pardon Goofy and me for hijacking your excellent thread Blushing
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#50 Posted : 10 March 2013 06:15:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,718
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Today i did visit hobbystore in my hometown and see this new upgrade in the CS2.
And also diesel BR218 with mfx+.
It was okey...
But more work by control locomotiv(s).


Goofy, I moved your post and other replies into this topic, so as not to clutter up Peter's mfx+ facts repository topic. Hope you don't mind.
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