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Offline Goofy  
#51 Posted : 10 March 2013 08:47:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Today i did visit hobbystore in my hometown and see this new upgrade in the CS2.
And also diesel BR218 with mfx+.
It was okey...
But more work by control locomotiv(s).


Goofy, I moved your post and other replies into this topic, so as not to clutter up Peter's mfx+ facts repository topic. Hope you don't mind.


Okey.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#52 Posted : 10 March 2013 08:53:02(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It was okey...


Did you pickup any specific points of interest or concern ?


Cab control in CS2 is an small PC game for Marklinist.
The problem is just that you must focus more at display to control cab.
The only minus is for 2 rail customer with CS2.
It don´t works for DCC!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline clapcott  
#53 Posted : 12 March 2013 07:55:00(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Cab control in CS2 is an small PC game for Marklinist.


Hi Anders,

Yes I have been giving some thought to this and have been wondering exactly "What is the Game"?

Usually a game has a challenge to overcome or a goal to achieve.

One challenge that is immediately apparent is that of being able to hit the SIFA reset regularly (Diesel and Electric). In my opinion external speakers are a must because, until you go to full virtual reality with a display that accurately represents the CabView, you will NOT be constantly looking at the screen and will miss the SIFA message.

If you do have a camera in the cab (from some other supplier with its attendand reciever/monitor), there is nothing to stop placing the monitor associated with it just behind and above of the CS2 - In this case this will be the screen to watche with just an occasional glance at the CS2 to sound a horn or check the timetable.

I , for one, will be using the two knobs, rather than a stylus, for speed and brake. (i.e. not relying on stylus to turn the wheel or pull a lever)
This is a pretty significant step in matching reality. Whereas I used to challenge my niece and nephew to stop a train "nicely" at a platform , without having to reverse, so the passengers could get off on the platform, divorcing braking from the throttle takes this to another level - and may be all that is needed for most modelers added satisfaction.

Generally I would say adding a "score" would be too tacky. However maybe there is a place for a Kids(Game) Mode with rewards(bonus points) and penalties(lost points) for failing to refuel in time. Or... things like sounding the horn when approaching a crossing , or slowing to an appropriate speed (which would have a sensor on the track to match the layout)

Until the issue of "One sensor for all" when setting up a refueling station is resolved, this first incarnation of the virtual reality is really for only one player (one train). It will be interesting to see if and how far Marklin will take this (either themselves or partnering with peripheral providers)
Peter
Offline H0  
#54 Posted : 12 March 2013 08:21:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Until the issue of "One sensor for all" when setting up a refueling station is resolved [...]
It's a feature, not a bug.
With the current feedback system ("free" or "occupied"), the CS2 would need to know the complete track plan and the position of each loco to keep track of which loco closes which feedback contact. Can be done, but goes far beyond the current implementation of the CS2.
Another solution was a feedback system that returns the address of the loco, not just "free" or "occupied". mfx could be used for that, but AFAIK there is a RailCom patent preventing this.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline clapcott  
#55 Posted : 12 March 2013 10:59:54(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
It's a feature, not a bug.

I never said it was a bug - It is working as designed - which has the limitation of only allowing one loco on the route. I see this limitation as an issue for most modelers who want to run multiple trains.

Quote:

With the current feedback system ("free" or "occupied"), ....

this may be the case with the current hardware but the mFX protocol show a feedback event can be other than 0 or 1


Quote:

RailCom patent preventing this.

It is not a patent that prevents use perse - it is the not coming to an agreement, financial or reciprical, with the patent owner that, in law, is the show stopper
Peter
Offline Goofy  
#56 Posted : 12 March 2013 12:22:12(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Cab control in CS2 is an small PC game for Marklinist.


Hi Anders,

Yes I have been giving some thought to this and have been wondering exactly "What is the Game"?

Usually a game has a challenge to overcome or a goal to achieve.

One challenge that is immediately apparent is that of being able to hit the SIFA reset regularly (Diesel and Electric). In my opinion external speakers are a must because, until you go to full virtual reality with a display that accurately represents the CabView, you will NOT be constantly looking at the screen and will miss the SIFA message.

If you do have a camera in the cab (from some other supplier with its attendand reciever/monitor), there is nothing to stop placing the monitor associated with it just behind and above of the CS2 - In this case this will be the screen to watche with just an occasional glance at the CS2 to sound a horn or check the timetable.

I , for one, will be using the two knobs, rather than a stylus, for speed and brake. (i.e. not relying on stylus to turn the wheel or pull a lever)
This is a pretty significant step in matching reality. Whereas I used to challenge my niece and nephew to stop a train "nicely" at a platform , without having to reverse, so the passengers could get off on the platform, divorcing braking from the throttle takes this to another level - and may be all that is needed for most modelers added satisfaction.

Generally I would say adding a "score" would be too tacky. However maybe there is a place for a Kids(Game) Mode with rewards(bonus points) and penalties(lost points) for failing to refuel in time. Or... things like sounding the horn when approaching a crossing , or slowing to an appropriate speed (which would have a sensor on the track to match the layout)

Until the issue of "One sensor for all" when setting up a refueling station is resolved, this first incarnation of the virtual reality is really for only one player (one train). It will be interesting to see if and how far Marklin will take this (either themselves or partnering with peripheral providers)


Game means also "to play" and cab control is an small version of PC game.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#57 Posted : 12 March 2013 12:29:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post


Quote:

RailCom patent preventing this.

It is not a patent that prevents use perse - it is the not coming to an agreement, financial or reciprical, with the patent owner that, in law, is the show stopper


RailCom is an licensed by of Lenz trademark and supports only in DCC.
In fact it works too.

Back to topic:
I want to see cab control function for DCC too.
If Marklin don´t want it i see this bug s**t...!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#58 Posted : 23 March 2013 23:09:25(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
I have tested a new loco today, BR101, all is ok on the CS2, but the apps mobile and main station don't recognize the new decoder.
Any news about a new release?
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline clapcott  
#59 Posted : 23 March 2013 23:35:17(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
I have tested a new loco today, BR101, all is ok on the CS2,
but the apps mobile and main station don't recognize the new decoder.
Any news about a new release?

Hi Alberto

Can you please elaborate,
What do you mean by "recognize the new decoder"?

I do not have the Main Station but my MSApp for iPhone/iPodTouch does pickup my mFX+ BR218
Nothing in the MSApp shows any reference to decoder type


Peter
Offline NZMarklinist  
#60 Posted : 24 March 2013 17:00:33(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Cab control in CS2 is an small PC game for Marklinist.


Hi Anders,

Yes I have been giving some thought to this and have been wondering exactly "What is the Game"?

Usually a game has a challenge to overcome or a goal to achieve.

One challenge that is immediately apparent is that of being able to hit the SIFA reset regularly (Diesel and Electric). In my opinion external speakers are a must because, until you go to full virtual reality with a display that accurately represents the CabView, you will NOT be constantly looking at the screen and will miss the SIFA message.

If you do have a camera in the cab (from some other supplier with its attendand reciever/monitor), there is nothing to stop placing the monitor associated with it just behind and above of the CS2 - In this case this will be the screen to watche with just an occasional glance at the CS2 to sound a horn or check the timetable.

I , for one, will be using the two knobs, rather than a stylus, for speed and brake. (i.e. not relying on stylus to turn the wheel or pull a lever)
This is a pretty significant step in matching reality. Whereas I used to challenge my niece and nephew to stop a train "nicely" at a platform , without having to reverse, so the passengers could get off on the platform, divorcing braking from the throttle takes this to another level - and may be all that is needed for most modelers added satisfaction.

Generally I would say adding a "score" would be too tacky. However maybe there is a place for a Kids(Game) Mode with rewards(bonus points) and penalties(lost points) for failing to refuel in time. Or... things like sounding the horn when approaching a crossing , or slowing to an appropriate speed (which would have a sensor on the track to match the layout)

Until the issue of "One sensor for all" when setting up a refueling station is resolved, this first incarnation of the virtual reality is really for only one player (one train). It will be interesting to see if and how far Marklin will take this (either themselves or partnering with peripheral providers)


Game means also "to play" and cab control is an small version of PC game.


Actually it's a new CS2 game ThumpUp When you get an Ecos or a CS1/2 Goofy, you'll realise what it and digital is really all about Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#61 Posted : 24 March 2013 17:05:56(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
I have tested a new loco today, BR101, all is ok on the CS2, but the apps mobile and main station don't recognize the new decoder.
Any news about a new release?


Hello Alberto,

Do you mean they will not operate your new M37358 BR101 with the MFX+ decoder, or just that they do not display Cab Control ?? Confused
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#62 Posted : 24 March 2013 18:18:15(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Hi Friends,
I mean that in the iPad/iPod screen I don't see the engine cab and the plus function icons too, but only the normal mxf functions.
If you are running the new loco in expert mode by CS2 in the iPad you cannot load sand, or push the dead man button, and the loco stops.
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline clapcott  
#63 Posted : 24 March 2013 20:15:04(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Hi Friends,
I mean that in the iPad/iPod screen I don't see the engine cab and the plus function icons too, but only the normal mxf functions.

On face value this seems a logical direction but I have not seen anything from Marklin on this.

If there was any future option to overlay a video/camera input it might be via a tablet (The CS2 does not have the capability)

One may read something into the pending Android announcement but I wouldn't take it to the bank (this soon)

Quote:

If you are running the new loco in expert mode by CS2 in the iPad you cannot load sand, or push the dead man button, and the loco stops.


The SIFA is only active in CabMode.

Good point about the refueling of the resources though. Although it is no different from what a MS offers.

Peter
Offline NZMarklinist  
#64 Posted : 28 March 2013 14:44:25(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Hi Friends,
I mean that in the iPad/iPod screen I don't see the engine cab and the plus function icons too, but only the normal mxf functions.
If you are running the new loco in expert mode by CS2 in the iPad you cannot load sand, or push the dead man button, and the loco stops.



Hello Alberto,

That is slightly disapointing, Sad but as Peter has already detailed, Cab Control is a one Lok, one man "game" so not really a need for it to be on the IPad. Better to keep the Ipad for controlling the layout, and the other Loks Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline clapcott  
#65 Posted : 29 March 2013 01:46:04(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
... as Peter has already detailed, Cab Control is a one Lok, one man "game" so not really a need for it to be on the IPad. Better to keep the Ipad for controlling the layout, and the other Loks Wink


Hi Glen,

Yes I personally believe the current implementation is ".. a one lok , one man game..".
However I can also see that an external tablet (like the iPad) is probably a better solution.

i) It offloads the "peripheral GUI processing" from the CS2 which should be concentrating on doing the track work
ii) is a more likely platform to offer "video in" from the camera in the cab.

I, too, look forward to a MainStation update - The iPod(Touch) MSApp should also be "aware" of the mFX+ capabilities of the loco.

Peter
Offline jeehring  
#66 Posted : 10 January 2014 19:55:51(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Q Are there any "gotchas" (operation bugs)

A Yes there are. These may be addressed (or not) in firmware/software updates



Specific example. 2 CS2 (one as slave) in CabMode for the same locomotive (Diesel/Electric) will each maintain their own SIFA counts.
....(...)...

]


May mfx+ Cab-mode philosophy be consistent with the principle of dual control.....??? RollEyes Unsure
Same question about the control by a single user of 2 different Loks at the same time on the same screen : is it really consistent with Cab-mode way of command ???
My answer : I have a doubt.... I'm not so sure...I even don't think so... but I haven't experienced it.
IMHO mfx Cab-mode = a single Locomotive for a single conductor, or, in case of several CS2's, each CS2 = its own Loc & its own conductor
I also think that it's good to have 1 or 2 MS2 when we play with mfx Cab-mode
What are Cab-mode user's answers ?
Offline Goofy  
#67 Posted : 11 January 2014 08:17:56(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
You have cab control by use it with Iphone too with Rocos Z21.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline clapcott  
#68 Posted : 12 January 2014 00:04:40(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post

Same question about the control by a single user of 2 different Loks at the same time on the same screen : is it really consistent with Cab-mode way of command ???
My answer : I have a doubt.... I'm not so sure...I even don't think so... but I haven't experienced it.

IMHO mfx Cab-mode = a single Locomotive for a single conductor, or, in case of several CS2's, each CS2 = its own Loc & its own conductor
I also think that it's good to have 1 or 2 MS2 when we play with mfx Cab-mode
What are Cab-mode user's answers ?


I do agree with your point, I am simply commenting on how the CS2 behaves
An example may be that you have CS2 controllers in different parts of the layout and "forget" to release control before the second one takes control

If we are building a wishlist, mine would be to be able to have some succinct "despatch" capability that would prevent multiple owners of a locomotive.
The MS1 (with a CS1/CS2) had this capability whereby its roster could be restricted, unfortunately it was tedious to implement and if you did allocate a loco to an MS1 the CS (or iThingy) could still override it.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#69 Posted : 12 January 2014 00:09:36(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
You have cab control by use it with Iphone too with Rocos Z21.

Does the Z21 have resources to manage and SIFA like capabilities ?


Actually....,
If anyone knows of other decoders/controllers with inbuilt (non-PC supplemented) capabilities similar resource/SIFA features, please mention them.
I am aware of the Uhlenbrock Profi-Control which has a despatch capability and distinuished between Throttle/Break(as available in CS2 CabMode) and has a SIFA button that can be enabled
Peter
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