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Offline al_pignolo  
#1 Posted : 26 April 2009 21:16:43(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
Hi all.
I digitalized a 34761 diesel train with the 60760 kit (decoder + 5-pole rotor). The motor and the decoder work good but, when the pickup shoe lacks the contact for some reason (i.e. in turnouts), the motor stops and restarts accelerating from zero, even if the speed was high. This makes the train running very bad, as you can imagine... [:(]
None of my other decoders behave like that. Is this the "alzheimer" problem? What can I do? In the instructions I read that this decoder has only a few of programmable CVs: accelerating and braking delay, maximum speed and loco address.
Someone has tips?
Thank you

Pietro
Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 26 April 2009 21:30:09(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,488
There is an "Alzheimer solution" for this decoder, using a resistor and a capacitor...

See http://decoder.x-train.d...ecoder/digipic/60760.php

Also other modifying tips are on that page...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline al_pignolo  
#3 Posted : 26 April 2009 21:39:47(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
Great! Easy to solve (why M* doesn't modify the decoder in the factory?)
And also the other upgrades are useful. Thanks Smile

Pietro
Offline intruder  
#4 Posted : 16 April 2011 12:15:30(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution?

I have, and I am not very happy with it.
From the hint in the x-train site, I read that the capacitor should be from 470 to 1.000 microfarad, and the resistor 10kOhm.
I thought that a big capacitor would store a lot of back-up power, so I used a 1.000uF 6,3V capasitor, and a 10kOhm resistor.

The wiring diagram:
UserPostedImage

Frankly, I think that it doesn't help at all. Mabye the charging time becomers to long, so a smaller resistor should be used?

My test locomotive is a 3044, where I allready have cleaned the wheels, axels and axel bushings, and reduced the number of traction tyres to one.
It has a new pick-up shoe.
Maybe the best solution is to wait for the new mLD decoder 60942 or 60962 from Märklin. I think the price is quite good.

Suggestions, anyone?

Edited by user 16 April 2011 13:01:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by intruder
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 16 April 2011 14:59:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,170
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution?

I haven't tried it.

The capacitor is an "Anti Alzheimer" measure to prevent the loco from starting at speed step 0 and accelerating slowly with ABD whenever it finds a tiny bit of dirt on the rails.
It only buffers the "brain", but doesn't supply power to the motor.

A capacitor that supplies motor power would require a different wiring (diode plus resistor) and would be a different type (35 V for digital operation only). And you'd need 2,200 µF or more to see an effect.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline efel  
#6 Posted : 16 April 2011 20:07:53(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
Has anybody in the forum testet the resistor and capacitor solution?

I have, and I am not very happy with it.
From the hint in the x-train site, I read that the capacitor should be from 470 to 1.000 microfarad, and the resistor 10kOhm.
I thought that a big capacitor would store a lot of back-up power, so I used a 1.000uF 6,3V capasitor, and a 10kOhm resistor.

The wiring diagram:
UserPostedImage

Frankly, I think that it doesn't help at all. Mabye the charging time becomers to long, so a smaller resistor should be used?

My test locomotive is a 3044, where I allready have cleaned the wheels, axels and axel bushings, and reduced the number of traction tyres to one.
It has a new pick-up shoe.
Maybe the best solution is to wait for the new mLD decoder 60942 or 60962 from Märklin. I think the price is quite good.

Suggestions, anyone?


Hi svein,
I don't know the 60760 decoder, but I can tell what I made on my loksound 3.5 to avoid alzheimer.
I used a 47000uF 6V "gold cap" (small size in spite of its large value). In order to protect the decoder, I included a 220 Ohm series resistor, that limits the load current. A shotky diode is connected in parallel with that resistor, to supply the decoder with a small drop voltage when necessary.
The connections are as follows, on the 21 pins connector
-Gold cap: "-" wire to Pin 20; "+"wire to the 220 Ohm resistor.
-220 Ohm resistor between "+" wire of the cap and Pin 12
-shotky diode in parallel to the resistor; cathode to Pin 12 and anode to the "+" of the cap.

Alzheimer has completly disappeared.

Fred
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by efel
Offline GSRR  
#7 Posted : 16 April 2011 21:02:28(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
Is the new ESU 4.0 decoder with the battery backup, in part a fix for this sort of issue?


Have a look at these threads, may be informative.


http://www.marklin-users...g-a-330uF-capacitor.aspx



http://www.marklin-users...g-a-2nd-pickup-shoe.aspx


http://www.marklin-users...ly-at-higher-speeds.aspx



r/Thomas


ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#8 Posted : 16 April 2011 22:33:28(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,858
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: GSRR Go to Quoted Post
Is the new ESU 4.0 decoder with the battery backup, in part a fix for this sort of issue?



That's how ESU seem to be portraying them.
Offline intruder  
#9 Posted : 19 April 2011 21:05:05(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Based on the some information here (thanks, Fred!), I will first of all try a smaller resistor.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline scraigen  
#10 Posted : 03 April 2012 15:33:02(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Sheffield,
Hi, does anyone know where the excellent x-train info now resides? I'm having a lot of difficulty finding the extremely useful info that used to be there. eg http://decoder.x-train.d...ecoder/digipic/60760.php now is a 404.

I'm trying to find the layout of the 60760 board so that I can locate the pin's referred to above for the Alzheimer's solution.

Photo of 60760...

UserPostedImage

but which solder pads are the ones referred to above? the description implies that + is orange whereas the board has clear + signs in the corner next to where the yellow wire connects, there is a spare solder pad in the middle next to the orange wire and there are also 5 solder pads on the opposite side of the board - any ideas anyone?

Cheers

Stu

Edited by user 03 April 2012 16:41:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Marklin - Sheffield S6 - Snooker table plus modest Marklin layout or no snooker table and HUGE layout??????
Offline scraigen  
#11 Posted : 03 April 2012 20:19:13(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Sheffield,
Hi, found my answers here Modify a 60760 decoder.

I tried a 10,000 uF capacitor and a 5K resistor

+ solder pad (furthest in on the batch of 5) to resistor
resistor to the + of the capacitor
- of the capacitor onto the - solder pad (nearest to the edge in the group of 5).

The capacitor is huge so good job its a tender loco.

Seems to work, but then the track is pretty clean and as always with these things now that I've come to modify it it didn't seem that bad in the test run before the mod.

Loc is still running both in analog and digital so hopefully all good.

Stu
Marklin - Sheffield S6 - Snooker table plus modest Marklin layout or no snooker table and HUGE layout??????
Offline Webmaster  
#12 Posted : 03 April 2012 20:24:18(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,488
I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages...

File Attachment(s):
60760.pdf (580kb) downloaded 191 time(s).
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline pa-pauls  
#13 Posted : 05 April 2012 19:57:45(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
Hi, does anyone know where the excellent x-train info now resides?


Well, Reinhard Bobzin, the man behind X-train died last january,,,


Pål Paulsen
Märklin Digital, DB and SBB Era III
Offline franciscohg  
#14 Posted : 06 April 2012 22:50:51(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,607
Location: Patagonia
Sad news.........
the site was excellent, even if you dont know much german.....like me :)
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD
Offline Olav  
#15 Posted : 08 April 2012 17:29:36(UTC)
Olav


Joined: 20/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages...



Are you entittled to "publish" the content somewhere?

Best regards

Olav
Offline franciscohg  
#16 Posted : 09 April 2012 00:09:32(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,607
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: Olav Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I have most of the x-train content and can provide pdf views of pages...



Are you entittled to "publish" the content somewhere?

Best regards

Olav


of send it by email?
:)
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD
Offline intruder  
#17 Posted : 16 July 2012 23:28:17(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
I have done some more testing with the 60760 decoder installed in my 3044.

Initially I used a 1000 uF capacitor. With the 10 Kohm resisitor, the charging time seemed to be too long.

Later I changed to a 470 uF capacitor, still using a 10 Kohm resisitor.

The new wiring diagram:
UserPostedImage

A photo of the decoder, with the black and purple wires to the capacitor and resitor unit:
UserPostedImage

A home made "Anti-Alzheiner" circuit board in the locomotive:
UserPostedImage

I am satisfied with this capacitor and resistor combination.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by intruder
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