Hello All,

Who can help me with placing and choosing the correct signals?

<s>I just make a first setup, but I'm not sure if this setup is correct?</s>
The image is already updated to the final situation.


All the signals are classic arm signals.

Any advise/comment is welcome.

Timaximus

Hello Fredrik,

Thanks for the response.

I forget to tell you that the two tracks between the switches are drive through and shunting tracks to the two goods depot tracks.
No station for passenger trains.

I know this is a difficult question to explain in words.
Is it possible that you draw your comments inside the image? [:I]

Thanks in advance.

Timaximus

The U signal in the top left corner is wrong, for there is no possible change of direction, therefore it must be a H signal. The second -blue- U signal MIGHT be right, depending on which catalog numbers are meant by U and I.

By the way U and I have nothing to do with drive in and drive out signals, but just whether there is a possible change of direction afterwards.

Regards,

Hans

Hello Hans,

I'm sooo wrong, damned, I quit.

Not likely

No problem at all friend!
I'm happy that you will explain me how I do it right.

Regards,

Timaximus

No problem , I will return tomorrow if you allow, my son is due for bed now !!!!

Many regards,

Hans

Hello again,

for the drive-through-tracks, it's still a station be it for passengers or not. This means an entry-signal (Einfahrsignal) is required (in each direction). If it's possible (allowed) for the train to enter the other track this signal must be able to show slow (Hp2) else a signal showing stop/go is sufficient (or the allowed speed is below or equal to 60 km/h, isn't that correct for Germany? In Sweden it's 80).

Thereafter the exit-signal (Ausfahrsignal) is correctly placed. Should be able to display the same different aspects as the entry(home?)-signal. I.e. "slow" if it's allowed to run a train over to the left track - else only go/stop is required.

Then you need a blocksignal for the first block after the station, in your drawing this signal appears pretty far away, so as I see it one is missing. If you go to the next H-signal, then return on the opposite track, you have a whole block extra there - I'd like that one to be on the right track also.

All this is valid for both directions.

Then - and now comes the even more tricky part - the switching movements. Here you will need a signal (the A-type) just like Hans said, wherever you want to switch direction AND protectiong your switches...

This is from the upper-right exit from the turntable just before the turnout protecting the entry onto the main-line. Then to be able to reach your freight-depot you'll need another one once you crossed the first track and entered the second, which protects the turnout in the opposite direction. Then you don't really need anymore before entering the freight-depot, the A:s being already there are correct.
You could put another A just before the turnot into the goods depot, and then another just before the turnout in the opposite direction (the one you just came from). Also if you want to be able to switch direction on the first track, you'll need an A-signal there also. In both cases you must provide enough space between the A-signal end the entry-signal/block-signal as is needed for whatever engine you want to move there.

The same approach is needed in the upper left exit of the turntable... The A-signals you put there is correct, but i can see no need for the H-signal there (unless the 3 tracks are such that trains start from there...).

On the freight-depot the H-signals is correct (both showing stop/slow), assuming trains start from there - BUT... if I may believe you run right-hand traffic on your layout, your trains leaving the freight-depot won't be able to reach the right track, therefore those H-signals may be obsolete, or you must add a crossover to the right track...

If you allow traffic in both direction though, then it's correct again. And as I you use the semaphor signals I guess it's not correct to put out signals for both directions on both tracks, that only occurs on newer lines (with light-signals) a.f.a.i.k.

Wow... that was a whole lot - but really it depends on how realistic you want it to be... and how you intend to use this station.

Sorry I can't display how I mean on your drawing, at least not for now...

See ya' later...

Fredrik.

A very good topic, I am following it closely so that I can learn as well.
Ira

Yeah,Good dream.

Hi again,

please take a look on the picture(s) below. an arrow ("&lt;" or "&gt;") indicates an A-signal, whereas a triangle is a main signal showing either 2 or 3 different signal aspects. They point in the direction of travel.



The entry signal from right need to be a Hp0/Hp1 showing only, as it's impossible to enter the left track. Unless it's allowed to run trains towards the turntable (but I guess that's a BW...?). From the left on the contrary, it's possible to enter also the opposite (left) track. Therefore this entry signal could be a Hp0/Hp1/Hp2 signal. Also you must then add an exit signal (see pic. below) at then other end of the left track which then should be a Hp0/Hp2 type (unless it's allowed to run on the "wrong" track, but I'm not sure if Hp1 is to be given in that case...).

You however should consider this construction, as it also includes a "pull-out-track" (Ausziehgleis), which enables you to switch your trains off the main-line (which normally ain't allowed (turntable-part omitted).



If any(every)thing is unclear... ask!!

Fredrik.

Hi,

about the yellow ones - don't really know. It depends on wheter the BW area is signal controlled or not. If it is, then they're neccessary - if it ain't then someone has to tell the engine driver when he is allowed to proceed (or he makes that decision by himself after bringing the TT in correct position).

As for all A:s - you have to turn them around... to the opposite direction.

For example: If I want to exit the TT upper left (single way out), I'll have to wait for the A-signal in front of the turnout and it must then face me. Then I cross the 1:st track (as I'm on my way to the freight yard), pass the turnout on track 2 passing that A-signal facing in the opposite direction of my travel. After passing it stop and turn direction, now waiting for the A-signal I just passed to show Sh1 - THEN I may enter the freight yard...

The shunting signals are VERY important!!! And also any A-signal which is to be passed by a route for trains (set by the main-signals) must be set to Sh1.

I'm still missing a blocksignal after the last turnout in both direction (on the respective right tracks).

Fredrik.

If we take the right entry of the station:

On the right track you have the entry-signal (Einfahrsignal). At the same place on the left track and in the opposite direction is the real exit from the station - which means you're really entering a block section - there I'd like to put a blocksignal (Hp0/Hp1).

Look at my pic #2, in the right part there is a signal named GMP just below signal N (which is the entry signal). Or am I thinking too modern now...???

Then the same at the left side of the station.

Fredrik.

Sorry!

I'm soooo dumb in this signal matter .
Moment please.

No,

not dumb, you just don't do it (for real) every day... [:P]

Fredrik.

No problem!

I hopefully didn't tell too much wrong, as I'm better on the swedish signalsystem, but the german ain't far away from there...

Some more things, just missed it, sorry...

Where you have a U there should be a H. The I to the right (entry) should be an U, and the I to the left should be a H. Also when an A is located together with any main signal it should be located in front of the main signal.

Fredrik.

Ok, i will make a new image.

You say "the I to the right"

Do you mean the most left I signal is an U signal and the most right I signal must be an H signal.

Or vice versa?

Timaximus

Ok,

You ment when turn to a side track (not station track) for example the turn table tracks, you leave the train routes and needs special separate clearance for this special LOC movement.

Timaximus

And a side-track is normally not signal-controlled...

There are basically 3 types of tracks:

1 - Tracks allowed for train-movements controlled by main-signals (and mostly also switching signals, those you call A)

2 - Track only controlled by those A-signals, a train can not run through these - unless it changes type of movement and is now a switching movement (or else it can't leave the train tracks).

3 - Side-tracks, only for switching and without dispatcher control...

Fredrik.

Yes now you are correct!

The I and U signals display stop (Hp0) when shunting (even if there is no Sh0/1 signal available), they are not for shunting use (more than if NO A-signal is present shunting have to stop at this signal). May proceed with special clearance.

Fredrik.

An interesting thread.You sure know your signals Fredrik.

Yeah,I agreed with Rowan.You know all your signals Fredrik.

Hi,

that's the problem - signals are really needed much more than affordable - so the digital version is out of the question. Do it a cheaper way!!

Fredrik.

Before I forget to ask.

Hans, do you also/still agree with this final signal layout?

It's the "Signalsystem Deutschland" after al.

Timaximus

Very good,

I think you've understood the principle!!!

Fredrik.

If running on a switching-route the speed-limit might be 40 km/h yes (here it's 30, can also be slower...). Although if running on a train-route (but off-course also passing the dwarf's) speed-limit is as stated by signs (or in-cab-signalling, or...). Again might be limited by Hp2 (slow-speed) which in Sweden is 40 km/h unless other notified (by ATC=Autoamtic Train Control).

If it's a pole-mounted signal doesn't really matter, as they're (unfortunately)normally mixed. German railroads might have different specifications where to use a high or a low dwarf though - not quite sure...

Fredrik.

Wow, this is good stuff indeed. It's very nice to have all kinds of experts in the forum. Together we must have the best collective knowledge in any aspect () of model railroading...