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Robkop		#1 Posted : 09 June 2006 16:00:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Hi, I'm new on this forum and I would like a solution for my problem with the flashlight on top of my DHG 700 Locomotive. The Loc was initially Delta like the 3088 DHG 700. Now I changed the motor for high performance, using kit 60760. The decoder was opened and extended with additional orange wire for + and extra wire for F3. Also added anti-alzheimer capacitor. So far So Good. The engine runs smoothly the lights work OK but The Flashlight on the roof is not working. It is connected to the F3 wire and the orange. The printcircuit used to be switched in serie with the motor in Delta conversion, Mailing M* Holland , I was advised to use a fuction terminal on the digital decoder with a 680 ohm resistor in serie of to the flashlight-circuitboard. The F3 works because the resitor gets hot when I switch it on, but somehow the curent seems not to be enough for powering the light(led). Doe anyone on this forum have experience with similar situation? Thanks,
		Regards, Rob
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JWO		#2 Posted : 09 June 2006 16:22:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 56 Location: Friesland		I think there is something wrong because the resistor is getting hot. I think a resistor doesn't should be hot when only a small led is connected. Check for shorts ? Johan
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Robkop		#3 Posted : 09 June 2006 16:48:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Johan, Inquiry at M* Holland learned that originally the printcicuit with the LED on it is switched in series with the motor. On the board two anti-parallel diodes create an potentialdifference to make the LED working. For this purpose a certain minimum current is nescessary. The resistor is replacing the motor in the new circuit. Maybe the resistor-value is too high and the wattage too low, so it gets hot. I will do an experiment replacing the flashlight-circuitboard with an ordinary bulb of 20 V to see if this has any effect.
		Regards, Rob
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steventrain		#4 Posted : 09 June 2006 21:00:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Hello and welcome to the forum Robkop.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Robkop		#5 Posted : 09 June 2006 22:28:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		[:o)]THX[:o)] It was not the first time that I visted this site. Lots of nice topics
		Regards, Rob
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SRB		#6 Posted : 09 June 2006 22:29:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 162 Location: ,		Welcome to the forum. Look aftyer that the consumption isn't higher than the decoder support.
		IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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Bill Marklin		#7 Posted : 10 June 2006 13:17:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hi Rob, Just get rid of the flashled board![}:)] At least of his components! This is a flashing led, so it should work with only a resistor of 1Kohm in serie, connected to F3. Success Greetings Bill
		K-Rail layout wth DC, Delta Control and C-rail layout with Mobile Station
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john black		#8 Posted : 10 June 2006 13:50:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Welcome here, Robocop
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Robkop		#9 Posted : 11 June 2006 02:04:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill Marklin <br />Hi Rob, Just get rid of the flashled board![}:)] At least of his components! This is a flashing led, so it should work with only a resistor of 1Kohm in serie, connected to F3. Success Greetings Bill THX Bill, I already guessed that it might be a flash-LED. As the Outside temps lower, I will continue the research. I was also considering to exchange the yellow LED with A Red (flash) one. Will be continued at next episode........
		Regards, Rob
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Robkop		#10 Posted : 14 June 2006 13:47:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Yesterday, in spite of the heat( >30 degrees[xx(]), I did some experimenting on the flashlight circuitboard. I ended up with a disassembled LED, two wires from the decoder and a resistor. the LED was switched with the resistor between the two decoder wires and the resuslts were.......[:(][:(]........disappointing. The led only glows weakly the resitors get worm to quite hot (dependent on the used values between 680 ohm - 390 ohm) and the light is not flashing. Next step will be ..assembling the LED on the board and test if the circuit results in a flashing LED again on another analog loco and see if it still operates.
		Regards, Rob
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Robkop		#11 Posted : 14 January 2007 18:36:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Hi again, after some time. THe DHG700 has been converted to high performance loco. The issue of using the special pcb of M* to support the flashing led on the roof has been cancelled. After some attempts to use 5 mm red flashing led's that were machined to a diam of 3mm that fits through the hole in the roof (but still too big insde), I found a seller for 3 mm flash led's . I have ordered some various led's with amongst other's the 3 mm red flashing led's. @ 18 ct's / each. So I equipped my DHG700 with the 60760 & a Flashing red 3 mm led. This looks good. Next time I would like to try to equip a brown NS 2200 loco with blue flashing lights on top at each end. but then I would like to try to fix that with one blue flashing led and light conducting fiber. The original pcb of M* will be tested with the delta decoder (that came from the DHG700) in another old M* Loc with disc collector that needs to run with M* digital or systems. The PCB was originally switched in series with the motor so testing will need the combination of decoder, flashlight-pcb & the motor. Perhaps it has been killed but I don't think so
		Regards, Rob
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intruder		#12 Posted : 14 January 2007 19:04:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway		Welcome to this group, Rob
		Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
		WWW
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Hemmerich		#13 Posted : 15 January 2007 00:01:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Robkop The Flashlight on the roof is not working. It is connected to the F3 wire and the orange. Doe anyone on this forum have experience with similar situation? Thanks, Hi Rob, I have mounted a 1,5kOhm resistor in series to the function output (in my case it is a 66032 decoder which doesn't make any difference). It works fine with my model!
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Robkop		#14 Posted : 15 January 2007 12:09:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Lutz, Your DHG loc does look slightly different from mine. Except from the used decoder and original motor with coils, Your flashlight pcb has two components (the transistor and the square brown part on the left of the pcb) that are not present on the one that was in my loco. This pcb in my loco has an integrated circuit that looks like a small black button glued to the board. I think that it is a previous version that Märklin used to fit in these loco's I still have to find out wether the flash board will work in its original configuration, but before I can do that, I have to convert another old loc with an old relay to a Delta loco to be able to test it
		Regards, Rob
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Timaximus		#15 Posted : 15 January 2007 15:28:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		I think you have the same PCB as I have Robkop. See: https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=5731 See: http://www.mamut.com/hom...way/3/16/mdi/subdet7.htm I did not yet try the solution Pål Paulsen provided. But maybe you can try that too. Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Robkop		#16 Posted : 15 January 2007 15:41:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Timaximus, indeed, it looks exactly like yours, I add your picture if you don't mind I used to check what to do with the Dutch Märklin tech service and was advised to switch the Flash-PCB between a function terminal of a decoder and the orange + wire with a serie resistor of 680 ohm. This did not work out, the resistor went hot and no flashing led. So my choice was a red 3 mm blinking led on the F3 I also installed the anti-alzheimer circuit with capacitor and resistor as described on the X-train web site. BTW do you have that circuit of pa-pauls translated into english yet? especially that last part and the right scheme as shown below?
		Regards, Rob
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viragoLDR		#17 Posted : 15 January 2007 17:13:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		grå = gray gul = yellow lysdiode = LED lys foran = front light lys bak = rear light brun til jord på motor = brown to earth on motor brun = brown
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
		WWW
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Robkop		#18 Posted : 15 January 2007 17:52:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		THX[^]
		Regards, Rob
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Hemmerich		#19 Posted : 15 January 2007 23:17:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Robkop <br />Lutz, Your DHG loc does look slightly different from mine. Except from the used decoder and original motor with coils, Your flashlight pcb has two components (the transistor and the square brown part on the left of the pcb) that are not present on the one that was in my loco. This pcb in my loco has an integrated circuit that looks like a small black button glued to the board. I think that it is a previous version that Märklin used to fit in these loco's Hi Rob, its actually the other way round! The led pcb (#337680) in my DHG700 loco #30886, THW blue, is the predecessor of the one that you apparently got. It appears to me being #600158, which is mounted for example also in the new #36880, On-Rail. Functionally they're the same.
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Timaximus		#20 Posted : 15 January 2007 23:47:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		So the current of the lamps goes through the PCB to MASS (PCB in serie with 16V lamps) and no addition of any Resistor needed this way !? Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Robkop		#21 Posted : 16 January 2007 12:28:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		I would say: "Give it a Try" & let us know ofcourse
		Regards, Rob
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Timaximus		#22 Posted : 16 January 2007 16:51:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		If I find the time, lot to do right now , I will give it a try, and let you know. Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Hemmerich		#23 Posted : 21 January 2007 14:37:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Here's another pic showing the internals of the DHG loco #36880 with the previous mentioned LED pcb #600158 and "60760 companion" decoder. The wiring is the same as of my older pcb with the decoder #66032, the orange cable goes to the left and the AUX1/f1 output (violet cable) with the series resistor to the right soldering pad of the pcb.
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Timaximus		#24 Posted : 21 January 2007 18:03:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		Hello Robkop and others, <s>I am going to order some 10k resistors and 470mF elkos for the anti Alzheimer effect as you did. But which parts did you use that fit inside this loc (Conrad Electronics Part numbers)?</s> I ordered both the 470 and 1000 mF ELKO's and 10K Resistors and some blinking leds (RED). Hopefully this will work for me too. Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Robkop		#25 Posted : 25 January 2007 10:03:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Hi Lutz, The photo's that You posted, are of the original Märklin 36880. I have seen the inside of this loco once at the dealer, who was so kind to show the interior of this model, after I explained my upgrade plan for my DHG700 with the 60760. What I noticed then was the big resistor between the red wire from the pickup shoe. This is also visable on Your photo's I would like to know the values of the resistors used (one in series with the blink -pcb and the big one before the decoder. May-be a circuit-Lay-out? I checked the M* service site for this 36880 but what is shown there is the drawing of the Delta version that mine also originally was.
		Regards, Rob
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Robkop		#26 Posted : 25 January 2007 10:18:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Timaximus <br /> I ordered both the 470 and 1000 mF ELKO's and 10K Resistors and some blinking leds (RED). Hopefully this will work for me too. Hi Timaximus, If it worked for me, it should work for You too. Red blinking light is actually used in the Netherlands when the train enters public accessable area's like industrial area's. So the red light is more like reality too. But, I am still very curious why the original pcb does not work. That's why I asked Lutz for more technical detais especially the big resistor between the pickup shoe and the decoder puzzles me.
		Regards, Rob
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Timaximus		#27 Posted : 27 January 2007 17:12:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		Hello Rob, I see no difference after the Anti Alzheimer upgrade?! I installed a 10K R and a 470uF C but still have the Alzheimer effect. I checked the connection 10 times but no results sofar. - What did I do wrong? I finally was able to program the decoder, but I also killed it when I tried to drive with it on the layout (the unprotected decoder fall from the train then shortcuts and died). I have 5 decoders left so I will try another one to build in and this time also with the flash light on function 3. I will also solder the Anti Alzheimer wires again and hope it will work this time (I also have 1000uF C in stock, maybe these will work). QUESTION: What DC voltage is coming from the function 3 output? Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Hemmerich		#28 Posted : 27 January 2007 23:10:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Robkop What I noticed then was the big resistor between the red wire from the pickup shoe. This is also visable on Your photo's I would like to know the values of the resistors used (one in series with the blink -pcb and the big one before the decoder. Hi Rob, the "Resistor" coming from the contact shoe is actually a noise suppression coil (47uH) that you may find in a number of new models today; it is equivalent to those well known ones in former AC models. I haven't yet checked the value of the pcb series resistor (since the shrink tube covers it partly); IMHO it is 680 Ohm as you mentioned earlier, but you might first try with 1k to be sure.
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Webmaster		#29 Posted : 28 January 2007 00:32:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		I'd just like to ask about the 60760 since you have added the "anti-Alzheimer"... Does the programming work ok with that modification? I have 5 sets waiting to be mounted in older loks...
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Timaximus		#30 Posted : 28 January 2007 01:31:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		As far as I can see I programmed it with the Anti Alzheimer solution connected. Unfortunately I need to start all over because of the killed decoder (I was a bit to enthusiastic this afternoon after I programmed the decoder). Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Robkop		#31 Posted : 29 January 2007 11:05:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br />I'd just like to ask about the 60760 since you have added the "anti-Alzheimer"... Does the programming work ok with that modification? Juhan, According to me, the programming with the Mobile station works fine. After some time since the decoder has been built in, I decided to try to change the settings. It was nescessary to add another (programmable) lok as mentioned in the 60760 manual to the MS to and give this the address of my DHG 700 to obtain the programming option. No problem
		Regards, Rob
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Robkop		#32 Posted : 29 January 2007 11:29:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Timaximus <br /> Unfortunately I need to start all over because of the killed decoder (I was a bit to enthusiastic this afternoon after I programmed the decoder). Timaximus, Sorry for You, what did go wrong, to have the decoder killed? edit: no need to reply on that , I missed your message aboveSmoke? Does it run the lok in only one direction or is it completely dead? If it is only one final transistor it may be repairable. if not it may be used as donor for spare parts. As Anti -Alzheimer circuit I used the 10K resistor connected to the 1000 µF capacitor (take care that the polarity of the Cap matches the polarity of the decoder)it was done as shown on the X-train site. THe red blinking Led needs 2.1 V so a resistor between 800 & 1000 ohm should reduce the decoder voltage.
		Regards, Rob
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Timaximus		#33 Posted : 29 January 2007 13:36:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		It was very sad to see how the decoder struggle after the electrocution and die slowly. After the shortcut a strange noise was coming from the decoder and the lights goes up and down. I try to get the loc as soon as possible from the track but I was too late. When I placed it on the track again the lamps lighted up and twinkle a bit and then die slowly for ever. I unsolder all the wires from it and save is as a souvenir. The SMD parts are far too small for me. But no sadness anymore, just go for another one and try it again! Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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Robkop		#34 Posted : 29 January 2007 15:15:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/06/2006(UTC) Posts: 16 Location: Kaatsheuvel,		Timaximus, [xx(] Your story sounds like a scene in robocop [}:)] only this one won't resurrect again,I guess. Good Luck with the second decoder [^]
		Regards, Rob
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Timaximus		#35 Posted : 29 January 2007 16:13:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home		Hopefully this week a lot of resistors, capacitors, diodes and rectifiers will arrive from Conrad! Timaximus
		Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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