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Offline Timaximus  
#1 Posted : 09 November 2006 23:48:20(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello colleagues,

Today I digitalized my First loc with the Märklin 60760 digital set.
The Delta DHG700 now runs 10 times better then before.
Only the sound at low speeds is still horrible, at high speed it sounds much better.

UserPostedImage
The old loc inventory (decoder plus engine parts) is in the box behind.

Now I want to activate the flashing light again.
But I do not know the schematic and what electronics part do I need?

Does someone know this schematic?

Thanks in advance.

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline intruder  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2006 00:19:12(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Good job, Timaximus!

I haven't seen this loco before.

My profession makes me ask a lot of questions, so maybe this can help a little bit:

Is the flashing LED installed on a separate PCB?
How was it connected to the DELTA unit?
Are you aware of the extra function output on the 60760 decoder (f3)?

No wire is connected to this output, but there are an extra + solder pad (for orange wire, next to the original one) and an extra solder pad next to it for the f3 output. Maybe you can use that one, if the "flashing unit" is on a separate PCB.

Extra "orange +" solder pad: to the right of the orange cable (you can see the circuit on the board)
f3 output solder pad: to the left of the gray wire
UserPostedImage
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Timaximus  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2006 00:41:57(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Svein,

No I did not know about this extra f3 function (wire solder pad).
I only thought that it has f0 for light and that's it!
The flash light is indeed mounted on a small separate PCB.

One wire (grey) was connected to the Delta decoder and the other wire (black) somewhere else I believe (I forgot to look and make notes about this, stupid of course).

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline intruder  
#4 Posted : 10 November 2006 01:05:02(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi again

Black wire form the delta decoder is normally the same as the orange +, connected directly to the positive (cathode) side of the rectifier diodes.
Gray wire - maybe the function output?

If a dropping resistor is installed on the flashing light PCB, I would take the risk of connecting the black wire to the orange solder pad and the gray wire to the f3 solder pad.
Is it a flashing LED or a normal LED with a flashing circuit?
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Timaximus  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2006 01:14:27(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Svein,

??? Is it a flashing LED or a normal LED with a flashing circuit ???

Now you ask me things I really do not know. wink
I can make an photo from the PCB if you like (update: I will shoot one tomorrow).

It would be very nice if we can get this flashing light work via a function button (on/off).

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline intruder  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2006 01:38:05(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Then we see tomorrow, Timaximus.

If not someone else allready knows and reply to you.Smile
Soon time to go to bed. Working day tomorrow. Good night.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline DasBert33  
#7 Posted : 10 November 2006 09:23:58(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
If you use a esu lokpilot (v3.0?) as decoder you program your outputs to various modes, flashing is one of them. That would mean you only need a resistor in series with your LED to get it flashing. I just installed a red led in a 3000 to simulate the firebox. It also has a random flickering mode, and it works pretty good. (with graphical programming through my ecos)

Bert

Offline intruder  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2006 18:59:25(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hello again

Just a close-up of the 60760 decoder, a little bit out of focus, I'm afraid.
UserPostedImage

Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Timaximus  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2006 19:33:31(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Svein,

This is the PCB.
But can I connect it to the 60760 decoder safely?

UserPostedImage

You can see the Grey and the Black wire on the PCB.
But those Grey and Black wire are also connected via an electronics element?

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline intruder  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2006 23:07:24(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Good evening

It is not so easy to see, but as far as it is posible to say, I presume that the white wire should be connected to f3 (negativ). Note the small "-" next to the LED.
The flashing unit is probably inside the black "thing" under the 22 microFarad condenser.
I can not see what the component between the black and the gray wire is.

This is how I would do it:
First of all, solder two wires to the decoder and connect them to a noraml small 22 Volt bulb (M# 610080), to see that the output is working, then:
Connect the black wire to orange+ solderpad.
Connect the gray wire to the f3 output solderpad, but first time via a 1kOhm resistor, to be on the safe side.
If nothing happens, I would connect the gray wire directly to the f3 output without the resistor.

If still nothing happens, I would repeat this in the opposite direction, with the grey wire to the orange + and so on.

But, I'm afraid that I cannot guarantee anything.
There must be someone in this forum that knows something or can see how it was connected originally?
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2006 23:18:13(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,162
Is the 60760 a good kit for a no-nonsense basic drive upgrade without any whistles & bells , just lights and some function as the 60901? I just wonder since M again has a "November sale" of it and I thought of getting a couple. My main questions are really - how do you program it? Does it suffer the "Alzheimer syndrome"?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Timaximus  
#12 Posted : 10 November 2006 23:38:24(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Svein,

I will give it a try.
But first I need to order a 1kOhm resistor.

Thanks for the info sofar.

I will make a better foto from that electronics element.



Hello Juhan,

As far I can see the 60760 is a cheap no-nonsense basic drive upgrade kit without any whistles & bells to upgrade Delta locs from cheap starter sets that are sold around the holydays ("Sinterklaas" and Christmas).

The Delta loc drives 10 times better after the upgrade and the lights keep burning this time when the loc stands still.
That is al I wanted.

I just build it in, no further experience sofar.

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline intruder  
#13 Posted : 10 November 2006 23:43:23(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I find the 60760 very good, for a simple and cheap convertion of models where you don't need a lot of functions.

I have used it, in combination with motors from other conversion sets or originally installed motors:
Primex 30031 DB Br 24, f3 = driver's cab light, 60903 motor
00380 DB Br 38 1967 "old version", f3 not decided yet, 60923 motor
3425 Kittel Dw8, f3 = interior light, original motor
37250 Werk 1, f3 = interior light, original motor

It is easy to program via MS or CS, like the mfx decoders, and like the other remote programmable decoders from CU 6021.

I do not know anything about Alzheimer, as I have no layout yet and only (too seldom for me, too often for my wife) make a small "table layout" in our living room.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline DasBert33  
#14 Posted : 11 November 2006 10:27:45(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Is the 60760 a good kit for a no-nonsense basic drive upgrade without any whistles & bells , just lights and some function as the 60901? I just wonder since M again has a "November sale" of it and I thought of getting a couple. My main questions are really - how do you program it? Does it suffer the "Alzheimer syndrome"?


I bought 5 sets last year. they run quite ok nut it's not exactly the same as 6090x sets.
- Only 14 speedsteps (<-> 27 with 6090x with the 'between' steps), hard to set acc/decc delay not to notice these steps
- No advertised extra function outputs
- Yes, they are very sensitive to bad contact, but on my Crail layout it is still very doable. (= a lot more sensistive than 6090x, I had to add caps in 2 locos to fix this)

That's why this year I bought my motors and decoders seperately (they are 60903 & 60904 anyway, so 60760 was no choice really) on ebay. Ok, it cost about 50 euros/conversion (vs 30?) but the lolpilot decoder i used has a lot more programming options to play with. On ebay you can get a 'real' M conversion set for half the price.

In summary, the 60760 motor is great but the decoder is kinda crappy.

Bert
Offline pa-pauls  
#15 Posted : 11 November 2006 14:03:07(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,842
Location: Norway
Hello Timaximus,

Look here : http://www.mamut.com/hom...way/3/16/mdi/subdet7.htm

There you see how to connect the pcb to 60902 (the picture down on
the right) and I do think it is the same with the 60970 decoder,,,

Sorry but the text is in Norwegian,,,
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
Offline Timaximus  
#16 Posted : 11 November 2006 18:36:34(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Pa-Pauls,

Thanks, I will give your link a better look sunday.
But if needed can I ask you to translate? Smile

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 28 September 2007 05:37:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,669
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33...... = a lot more sensistive than 6090x, I had to add caps in 2 locos to fix this......


Hi Bert, is there any chance of details on how you did this? I have a Lokpilot which seems to be very sensitive to voltage fluctuations, and was wondering whether it was possible to add some caps somewhere (not being sure where though). I'm also thinking of getting some 60760 kits too. Thanks.
Offline Hendro  
#18 Posted : 31 December 2007 22:08:54(UTC)
Hendro


Joined: 05/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Surabaya,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Timaximus
<br />
As far I can see the 60760 is a cheap no-nonsense basic drive upgrade kit without any whistles & bells to upgrade Delta locs


Tamaximus, i agree with you. 60760 comes with a lousy decoder. The price though is so much cheaper than previous upgrade kits (6090x, etc).
As marklin says 60760 is LIMITED item so I would still buy lots of 60760 to stock up.
-if your loc is a cheap one then use its motor & decoder
-if your loc is a collectible, use only the motor, throw away the decoder and get an ESU decoder with sound, etc.


Hendro
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#19 Posted : 01 January 2008 00:40:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,669
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hendro
<br />Tamaximus, i agree with you. 60760 comes with a lousy decoder.


I think that description is a bit harsh. I've just purchased 6 of these kits, and have just finished converting the last one. I think the decoder is fine for locos that have basic functions - lights, and not much else. Given that they cost me less for one kit than I could buy just the motor parts for they are very good value. I haven't as yet had any issues with running characteristics.

Of course, if you need more functions, then buy a Lokpilot or Loksound, but for basic no nonsense digital conversion, these kits are great.
Offline intruder  
#20 Posted : 01 January 2008 04:06:43(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I find the 60760 set and it's decoder very useful. I have so far bought five sets.

- The maximum speed can be adjusted very low. Some locomotives has a very low max. speed, e.g. 60 km/h.
- Only 14 speed steps - more than enough for low speed locomotives.
- Cheap, with a good motor.
- Simple to install.
- I hope Märklin in the future also offers this decoder with cheap conversion sets for the small and large flat commutator motors.


Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Hendro  
#21 Posted : 01 January 2008 09:20:39(UTC)
Hendro


Joined: 05/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Surabaya,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz

I think that description is a bit harsh.

Sorry bigdaddy, i am no expert, i guess i was wrong


Hendro
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 01 January 2008 10:21:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,669
Location: New Zealand
No worries, Hendro. I would describe them as a basic decoder, as long as people realise that, and don't expect all the bells and whistles. Unfortunately I'm one decoder down, as I smoked one of them (screw shorted out a wire). I got black and red coloured smoke, quite spectacular, but the stink!! Pooh!![xx(][:(!][:0][}:)]Cool
Offline nevw  
#23 Posted : 01 January 2008 11:30:16(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz
<br />No worries, Hendro. I would describe them as a basic decoder, as long as people realise that, and don't expect all the bells and whistles. Unfortunately I'm one decoder down, as I smoked one of them (screw shorted out a wire). I got black and red coloured smoke, quite spectacular, but the stink!! Pooh!![xx(][:(!][:0][}:)]Cool

Technicolor Smoke looks expensive. More so than Grey Smoke. [:p]
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 01 January 2008 12:15:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,669
Location: New Zealand
I tried to put the smoke back in the wires, but wasn't fast enough. Getting older, you see.....[:I][:o)][:0]
Offline intruder  
#25 Posted : 01 January 2008 16:26:36(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Too bad that you weren't quick enough with the smoke, bigdaddy biggrin
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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