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2ndChancer		#1 Posted : 20 October 2005 17:24:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Hi all, 1) Looking in the direction of the train is heading, on which side should be the signal installed ? Left or right? 2) How are distant signals used ? Please advise Thank you Chan
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viragoLDR		#2 Posted : 20 October 2005 17:48:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		I think on the right side of the track is common, but it might be different depending on the country. So I guess it depends on which country (if any) you want to base your model railroad in. As for distant signals, they are an indication of what the upcoming signal will be. A distant signal might for example say the upcoming signal will be red, that way the train driver can start slowing down. If not for distant signals, trains wouldn't be able to stop in front of a red signal in time due to braking delays and such. On model railroads, there's usually no room to use distant signals, so they're either skipped, placed directly in front of the main signal, or they are combined with the previous main signal. The 3rd case seems to be gaining popularity especially since there's many good combined main/distant signals now.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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MärCo		#3 Posted : 20 October 2005 18:18:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		The Märklin signals are of German prototype, so they should be placed on the right side of the tracks. 7188 is not a typical German signal, and thus could be placed on the right or left side. In The Netherlands, if the signal is placed at the wrong side, a white board is attached with a black arrow that points to the track which the signal operates.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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McLae		#4 Posted : 20 October 2005 19:33:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		Viessmann makes a good variety of signals. The catalog also has a good overview of how to place signals. (Viessmann also makes the new Marklin signals) Look in the Links&Downloads for Viessmann site link. BTW, a couple of years ago, I asked Viessmann a question, and not only got an answer, but a free catalog.
		The McLae IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
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Lars Westerlind		#5 Posted : 20 October 2005 20:00:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 2,379 Location: Lindome, Sweden		There are differences between contries. I think the main rule in Europe is right on a single line, outside if it is a double line, and "wrong" side if it makes ths signal visible. I think that also in real life it becomes more common to place a distant signal combined with the "previous" home signal; There must be a certain "brake" distance between the home signal and distant signal, if that line allows for higher speed, and the signal blocks are often rather short to allow for more dense traffic. But if you have a high speed line, with long distance between the home signals, and possible poor visibilty, the distant signals may even be repeated! /Lars
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MärCo		#6 Posted : 20 October 2005 20:28:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		The French high speed lines has no signals, but cab display. (search Google for TVM, Transmission Voie Machine).
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justin182		#7 Posted : 20 October 2005 21:19:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/10/2003(UTC) Posts: 111		Here is a great site with lots of pictures and explanations of German signals. Very useful information. http://www.sh1.org/fotos/index.htm -Justin
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viragoLDR		#8 Posted : 20 October 2005 21:42:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Does any one have any info about Bavarian Era I signals? I noticed Viessmann has a 2 way Bavarian home signal, but no specific Bavarian distant signal. Did they use standard distant signals, and did the signals only have "stop" and "drive" during that time? I'm thinking of building a part fantasy part prototypical layout based on Era I Bavaria stuff, but I'd like to get the signals correct at least, since they really add a lot of atmosphere. Of course, I don't actually have any Bavarian stuff yet, and I'm not even sure when I'll get any, since money is (as always) a problem. And I'll stop hijacking this thread now..
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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Lars Westerlind		#9 Posted : 20 October 2005 23:30:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 2,379 Location: Lindome, Sweden		Don't KNOW, but can guess. The speed wasn't that high, so distant signals wasn't so important. And on smaller lines, no signals were used; only one train at a time was allowed. And; 2 aspects was enough too; with low speed it's only stop and go. /Lars
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McLae		#10 Posted : 21 October 2005 00:21:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		At least the EU signals are not (usualy) as odd as the US signals. Here is the sequence here: Dark Green (Here is where train is) Red Yellow (flashing) Yellow (Steady) Green (May be train) Dark (If no train) (One more reason to model EU) With Dispatcher control and GPS location reporting, 'Signals' may be Era I-V but not Era VI+.[:(]
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MärCo		#11 Posted : 21 October 2005 00:53:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by 2ndChancer <br />Hi all, 1) Looking in the direction of the train is heading, on which side should be the signal installed ? Left or right? 2) How are distant signals used ? Please advise Thank you Chan Inportant information for us: which country is your prototype ?
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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MärCo		#12 Posted : 21 October 2005 00:56:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by McLae <br />At least the EU signals are not (usualy) as odd as the US signals. Here is the sequence here: Dark Green (Here is where train is) Red Yellow (flashing) Yellow (Steady) Green (May be train) Dark (If no train) (One more reason to model EU) With Dispatcher control and GPS location reporting, 'Signals' may be Era I-V but not Era VI+.[:(] Do you think so ? In the Netherlands: Blue light = green light, but you have to do or control something before you can drive (chut a bridge or so).
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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prc		#13 Posted : 21 October 2005 01:22:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 283 Location: Granby, Ct		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by 2ndChancer <br />Hi all, 1) Looking in the direction of the train is heading, on which side should be the signal installed ? Left or right? 2) How are distant signals used ? Please advise Thank you Chan Does anyone know a good "how to" paper on US signals? What is the best source for buying US signals? Any help is appreciated! Thanks
		Paul Granby, Ct. USA
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2ndChancer		#14 Posted : 21 October 2005 03:57:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Dear all, How nice to start my morning by seeing so many replies!! Marco, I don't have a specific theme(not even a specific Era), as it's hard for me to get appropriate material and cars here in HK. Yet my plan is to have a Cross Era Euro Fleet, consist of mainly German cars, then SBB, DSB and later will add the SCNF & OBB..etc depending on availability. So I know it's hard to be prototypically correct, at least I like everything to be sensible. It was that 9 yrs ago that I bought a batch of Brawa signals (at a discount price). I like to make good use of them on my first layout with reasonable accuracy. I will post some pics and see what I can do with them. Thanks once again to all of you, your discussion is indeed a very good introduction. Chan
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Mikael		#15 Posted : 21 October 2005 11:33:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 959 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		Since you mentioned DSB, I thought you should see the danish signals, and how they are used. And when you are done reading, you'll probably run away while screaming, and use some other signals http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc2.../signal/dk/dksignal.html
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viragoLDR		#16 Posted : 21 October 2005 11:48:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		I guess if it's mostly German cars, you should go for standard German signals. They're quite simple, and best of all, it shouldn't be a problem getting them.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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2ndChancer		#17 Posted : 23 October 2005 12:43:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Yes Mikael, I will definitely use German sigbals, after that interesting site. Thanks everyone Chan
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stenscience		#18 Posted : 23 October 2005 16:03:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 789 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Since you mentioned DSB, I thought you should see the danish signals, and how they are used. And when you are done reading, you'll probably run away while screaming, and use some other signals Thanks, Mikael for the great site on Danish signals. I saved in my favorites. It looks like most of the signals could be adapted from M* or V stock, and the non-lighted ones scratch-built. Do you know if the same signalling protocols were used for all lines? I am particularly interested in the Sjaelland S-tog and HFHJ lines from the late 1960's.
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McLae		#19 Posted : 23 October 2005 17:35:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		Something else to remember is that the DB updated signals over time. There are pictures of semaphore signals still in use today! So feel free to use whatever signals look best for you![:o)]
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Mikael		#20 Posted : 23 October 2005 19:43:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 959 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark		No, not everything was used everywhere, but I don't have many details. I guess you should have a closer look at the pages "Station Entry Signals - the Private Lines" and "Station Exit Signals - the Private Lines" for your HFHJ line. And the chapter "Copenhagen Suburban Lines" in the "Automatic Block Signals" page should help you with the special HKT S-tog signals (the ones with two diagonal yellow lights in addition to the normal red and green). But the S-tog also runs on normal signals, where the HKT-sections are not present. This is typically in the ends of the line, that is some distance away from Copenhagen city.
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stenscience		#21 Posted : 23 October 2005 20:04:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 789 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico		Thanks for the pointers Mikael. There is so much there that I guess I missed the parts I was looking for.
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H0		#22 Posted : 24 October 2005 02:59:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		In Germany tracks are normally seen as pairs with signals right from the right track and left from the left track. Next to our house there are 6 tracks, and signals are right from tracks 1, 3, and 5 and left from tracks 2, 4, and 6. To make it clear if a signal is "left" or "right", the signal is left or right from the post (so far I only saw centered models, but with a two-track layout that is no problem). Sometimes they use arrows if a signal is placed on the wrong side. The left track sometimes has reduced signals (distant signal is just a PZB magnet and a reflecting sign, main signal just M* 76371; right track is normally used, left track is used in special situations only.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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2ndChancer		#23 Posted : 24 October 2005 13:56:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Thankx Zero, Fortunately my layout is a small one. Probably just a home signal and a distant signal will do. Chan
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viragoLDR		#24 Posted : 24 October 2005 15:38:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		since we're still on the topic of signals, those viessmann semaphores, do they have a realistic slow motion when changing from 1 position to another, or do they jump immediately? I know there's some where is specifically says they do, but the ones I would be using don't seem to mention anything like that. Especially distant signals don't mention anything about it at all.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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2ndChancer		#25 Posted : 24 October 2005 16:07:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Hi viragoLDR, I have some semaphores from Brawa that does exactly what you like, slow motion. In downward movement, it goes real slow. It operates on therma wires, and require an extra trafo, low volt high current. I can get you the part no./model by tomorrow. (My layout is in my office) Chan
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viragoLDR		#26 Posted : 24 October 2005 16:36:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Hmm.. sounds good, but the problem is that they have to be Bavarian signals (k.bay.sts.b) and not regular german ones ;) However, I'd still like the part number, if those Viessmann Bavarian signals somehow aren't to my liking I can get the Brawa's and just modify them a bit.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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McLae		#27 Posted : 24 October 2005 18:39:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		The Viessmann signals I have all (even the hobby one) slow motion. Not sure if the Bavarian signals are the same as I have none of those. The hobby semaphore seems to be a bit more delicate.[xx(] Mine stopped working for some unknown reason, and I had to the the light version instead. (For my Son's/test layout)
		The McLae IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
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viragoLDR		#28 Posted : 24 October 2005 19:12:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Ah thanks, I'm guessing the Bavarian signals will have that as well then. From what I can see on the pictures, the only difference is really the actualy signal beam thingy (whatever it's called, the red and white thing that moves up and down). I'll check the local store this weekend, see if they have any of those lying around and test a bit.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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2ndChancer		#29 Posted : 25 October 2005 14:19:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 587 Location: Hong Kong,		Hi virago, The Slow Memory Semaphore from Brawa is of model 8538(dual semaphore) and 8530 (Single semaphore) needs a trafo from Brawa as well. Have fun Chan
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viragoLDR		#30 Posted : 25 October 2005 15:17:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Cool, thanks
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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