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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 19 May 2016 17:44:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I did just present my new Bayern steam in another topic.
When i did tested locomotive,i did notice poor lighting effect front and rear.
This model are equipped with warm light LED.
If you decides to get this model...Don´t!
Save yours money.
A model which cost around €440,00 shall not have weak lighting!! Cursing
I did returned locomotive back.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 19 May 2016 17:47:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
P.S.
The lighting shows up with square appearance too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline hxmiesa  
#3 Posted : 19 May 2016 18:02:10(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Isn´t there a CV register that controls the strength of the lighting?
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 19 May 2016 18:34:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I would expect dim lights from an Era I locomotive. They didn't have halogen lamps in those days...
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 19 May 2016 19:00:44(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
What´s difference with the dim lighting and the CV register?
There is no information to set the lighting.
The locomotive do have square appearance.
No matter if strength in the lighting increase.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline DTaylor91  
#6 Posted : 20 May 2016 04:56:45(UTC)
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I would expect dim lights from an Era I locomotive. They didn't have halogen lamps in those days...


My thoughts exactly!
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Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 20 May 2016 17:27:09(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I would expect dim lights from an Era I locomotive. They didn't have halogen lamps in those days...


My thoughts exactly!


In fact did era 1 steam locomotive used paraffin lamp with the reflector.
In this way they did add brighter light.
The prototyp did had the good brightness of the headlights,which Märklin don´t present with the model.
And besides do Märklin present square appearance headlight.
It´s sooooo wrong!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 20 May 2016 18:57:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
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Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DTaylor91 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I would expect dim lights from an Era I locomotive. They didn't have halogen lamps in those days...


My thoughts exactly!


In fact did era 1 steam locomotive used paraffin lamp with the reflector.
In this way they did add brighter light.
The prototyp did had the good brightness of the headlights,which Märklin don´t present with the model.
And besides do Märklin present square appearance headlight.
It´s sooooo wrong!


You obviously have first hand experience of Era I locos, so I will bow to your superior knowledge.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Webmaster  
#9 Posted : 20 May 2016 19:06:50(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Is it weak also when you look at it straight into the front lights with your eyes at the same level?

I mean, could be like the Dm3 "phenomenon" that the lights do not disperse the light sideways as much as the "older" Märklin does...

Just a thought...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline biedmatt  
#10 Posted : 20 May 2016 19:44:43(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I mean, could be like the Dm3 "phenomenon" that the lights do not disperse the light sideways as much as the "older" Märklin does...

Just a thought...


...which is exactly what you want in a headlamp.

The amount of light a Fresnel lighthouse lense could capture and transmit in parallel beams is incredible. Especially when you consider the manufacturing technology of the 1800s. I saw one in a museum on Lake Erie. They are a gorgeous sight to behold.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 20 May 2016 23:45:48(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Headlights on a car are made so the driver can see where he/she is driving, and avoid or brake before obstacles on the road.

Headlights on a locomotive is made so the locomotive can be seen from a distance, since it can't avoid or brake fast enough to avoid obstacles anyway.

Headlights on a locomotive is basically signals for others to see, and in Era I until approximately 1870 - 1880, lamps were low intensity whale oil lamps.

Then came acetylene or kerosene lamps, and later electrical lamps.

Actually the lamps can't be too bright, because the must not blind the driver of an opposing train !!

Story of the locomotive headlamp: http://www.presentationm...otive-headlamp-16257.htm

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 21 May 2016 08:05:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Is it weak also when you look at it straight into the front lights with your eyes at the same level?

I mean, could be like the Dm3 "phenomenon" that the lights do not disperse the light sideways as much as the "older" Märklin does...

Just a thought...


Yes Juhan!
When i look straight into the front lights.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 21 May 2016 08:09:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Headlights on a car are made so the driver can see where he/she is driving, and avoid or brake before obstacles on the road.

Headlights on a locomotive is made so the locomotive can be seen from a distance, since it can't avoid or brake fast enough to avoid obstacles anyway.

Headlights on a locomotive is basically signals for others to see, and in Era I until approximately 1870 - 1880, lamps were low intensity whale oil lamps.

Then came acetylene or kerosene lamps, and later electrical lamps.

Actually the lamps can't be too bright, because the must not blind the driver of an opposing train !!

Story of the locomotive headlamp: http://www.presentationm...otive-headlamp-16257.htm

Per.

Cool





Very nice link!
We must also remember the lighting in the coach.
They was pretty lighting too under era 1.
Märklins B VI are too weak and when you have wagons with the lighting,you see how difference it appears on the model railway in the dark room.
Not good! ThumbDown
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 21 May 2016 08:21:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklins B VI are too weak and when you have wagons with the lighting,you see how difference it appears on the model railway in the dark room.
I don't see it. Maybe someone can show some photos that allow to compare this loco's headlights with other locos and with the interior lights of the coaches (which are often too bright when factory-installed).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Purellum  
#15 Posted : 21 May 2016 08:54:25(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

For a loco build between 1863 and 1871, the light looks pretty correct for me:



Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline NZMarklinist  
#16 Posted : 21 May 2016 13:39:21(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Hi All,

I have the 37977 Coal Fired Sauerlach model. I haven't run it for awhile but I don't recall the lights being too dim or in any other way not as I was expecting.

I concur with Per's comments ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 21 May 2016 20:25:52(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
My 3687 Glaskasten also has pretty dim lights, and are about what I would expect for a loco from that era.

Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 22 May 2016 09:55:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Here is one video show,that shows the same typical model made of Märklin/Trix.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VEuoiQrS0

This lighting effect you see was the same effect with the model i did returned back.
The lighting effect in the prototype was more powerful and not square appearance!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 22 May 2016 10:11:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
This lighting effect is better!
Just put LED inside of the headlamp.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgYLDgHe9ZE
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 22 May 2016 23:35:26(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

The Württemberg K prototype is more than 50 years newer than the Bayerische B VI, and had different types of lamps.

Have you ever seen an oil lamp ?? It is not round and does not have much power in the light.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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GLI
Offline franciscohg  
#21 Posted : 23 May 2016 06:16:46(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,261
Location: Patagonia
Ohhhhh, I think I can live with that square effect....

UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 23 May 2016 09:47:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
They only look square if you look stright into them. From normal viewing angles they look fine.

On my B VI it doesnt seem to be an issue...

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 23 May 2016 17:47:16(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

The Württemberg K prototype is more than 50 years newer than the Bayerische B VI, and had different types of lamps.

Have you ever seen an oil lamp ?? It is not round and does not have much power in the light.

Per.

Cool


Oil lamp?
You mean paraffin lamp?
And they used reflector too inside of the head lamp.
The Württemberg K with the headlight was just suggestment,by present ideal of the headlight.
I present again this video which shows square appearance!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VEuoiQrS0
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#24 Posted : 23 May 2016 21:59:29(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Oil lamp?
You mean paraffin lamp?
And they used reflector too inside of the head lamp.
The Württemberg K with the headlight was just suggestment,by present ideal of the headlight.
I present again this video which shows square appearance!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VEuoiQrS0


No, I mean ( whale ) oil lamp. And even if the reflector is round; the centre of an oil lamp is still pretty "squarish".

And the Württemberg K head lamp can't be an example of an ideal headlamp for a Bayerish B VI, since they are two different types of lamps; the Bayerishe oil lamp being 50 years older than the electrical lamp on the Württemberg K.

Please look at the different pictures here: https://www.google.co.uk...AhVmK8AKHamHDxQQ_AUIBigB

The flame in an oil lamp is ( more or less ) square; only seen from a distance it looks round, and of course the emitting light after the reflector is "roundish".

Per.

P.S: Thomas Edison presented his first electrical light bulb in 1879, which is several years after the Bayerishe B VI was build:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline mattj70  
#25 Posted : 24 May 2016 05:39:10(UTC)
mattj70

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 460
Location: Hudson FL
Looks great to me, would like one!
Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 24 May 2016 18:21:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


And the Württemberg K head lamp can't be an example of an ideal headlamp for a Bayerish B VI, since they are two different types of lamps; the Bayerishe oil lamp being 50 years older than the electrical lamp on the Württemberg K.

Please look at the different pictures here: https://www.google.co.uk...AhVmK8AKHamHDxQQ_AUIBigB


Per.

P.S: Thomas Edison presented his first electrical light bulb in 1879, which is several years after the Bayerishe B VI was build:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison



The poor lighting in the Bayern locomotive from Märklin must been stronger to have effect in the layout when you use the trains in the darker room.
That´s way i present Märklin Württemberg to equal.

Yes Thomas Edison did present his first electrical light bulb year 1879,but it toke years by start install light bulb in the steam locomotive.




H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline nitramretep  
#27 Posted : 24 May 2016 19:41:23(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
Goofy, By effect I presume you mean a beam of light? I can assure you that Epoch I loks had hardly any capabilities of illuminating more than several yards ahead. The older lamps only had flat glass, in the 30s & 40s I believe, they used domed glass lens that created a "beam" of light, not very far but at least an improvement. I have several early lok lights, real ones, and I can assure you the furthest light beam hardly reaches 25 feet. The earlier lamps were more of a warning light to indicate a lok was coming as opposed to lighting the way.
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Offline Purellum  
#28 Posted : 24 May 2016 21:38:15(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


The poor lighting in the Bayern locomotive from Märklin must been stronger to have effect in the layout when you use the trains in the darker room.
That´s way i present Märklin Württemberg to equal.

Yes Thomas Edison did present his first electrical light bulb year 1879,but it toke years by start install light bulb in the steam locomotive.



OK, so you want to have a realistic looking 1850s locomotive with 1920 head lights, and you still think Märklin made it wrong ??

LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Goofy  
#29 Posted : 27 May 2016 19:14:43(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


OK, so you want to have a realistic looking 1850s locomotive with 1920 head lights, and you still think Märklin made it wrong ??

Per.




I don´t understand what is wrong with you.
The new model with the LED´s do have same placement of the light.
The light pipes in the new model is exactly same like old models of the Märklin.
The new model shows too weak lighting and the square appearance,which in the prototype has never been like that.
And yes...Märklin still do it wrong.
Not worth to pay €440,00 for an model with too weak lighting.

Cool

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Ross  
#30 Posted : 29 May 2016 03:51:38(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 867
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi All,

This locomotive LED lighting brightness can be improved/changed.

The resistors for the LEDs are 10k in a 0805 size (103 smd marking) and the decoder F0 light intensity value is 255.

Change resistors to a value in the range 1k max brightness -- 10k default dim look.

There are 2 resistors in the tender and 1 resistor in the locomotive. By reducing the resistor value you will be able to control the brightness by changing the decoder F0 value.


UserPostedImage


The left hand image lights for F0 is set to a value of 10 and the right hand image for F0 is set to the max value 255 with the default 10k resistors.

Lights look ok without room lights but aren't very good with room lights.

Edited by user 01 June 2016 08:50:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ross
Offline Goofy  
#31 Posted : 29 May 2016 11:31:32(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

This locomotive LED lighting brightness can be improved/changed.
The resistors for the LEDs are 10k (103 smd marking) and the decoder F0 light intensity is 255 value.

Change resistors to a value in the range 1k max brightness -- 10k default dim look.

There are 2 resistors in the tender and 1 resistor in the locomotive. By reducing the resistor value you will be able to control the brightness by changing the decoder F0 value.



The Bayern locomotive which i did had,was standing at the highest value which are 255.
Yet it was poor lighting effect!
It depends the LED´s are placement too far away from the head lamps.
Märklin use light pipes to the head lamps and that´s way you get lesser light to the head lamps.
And shows up with the square appearance! ThumbDown
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Ross  
#32 Posted : 01 June 2016 08:46:43(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 867
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Anders,

The LEDs are very close to the light pipes and with resistor value changes, the brightness can be improved so the lights can be seen with the room lights on.

I have placed a photo above which will help people understand the problem. As for the square look I guess it is up to the individual taste/requirements.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


The Bayern locomotive which i did had,was standing at the highest value which are 255.
Yet it was poor lighting effect!
It depends the LED´s are placement too far away from the head lamps.
Märklin use light pipes to the head lamps and that´s way you get lesser light to the head lamps.
And shows up with the square appearance! ThumbDown


Ross
Offline Purellum  
#33 Posted : 01 June 2016 10:46:23(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
As for the square look I guess it is up to the individual taste/requirements.



They look really prototypical to me.

UserPostedImage

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#34 Posted : 01 June 2016 12:19:04(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have locos with weaker lighting than these. I don't think it's a big deal.

Mind you, I've never sent a loco back for any reason...
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Ross  
#35 Posted : 09 April 2020 03:57:55(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 867
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi All,

I have finally improved the lighting in my 39021 Bad 1V. This is a combined photo showing a before and after result.
The resistor value I used was 3k

UserPostedImage
Ross
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Offline mvd71  
#36 Posted : 09 April 2020 04:34:57(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,702
Location: Auckland,
Hi Goofy,

I see your point, and thank you for letting people know of the problem. I too have seen locos with the square headlight effect and do not like it.

Ross, thanks for showing us how to improve the lights and providing the resistor valie. With the increased brightness the square effect seems to have gone.

Cheers...

Mike
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