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Offline ixldoc  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2016 10:27:43(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Hello all,
After working on the idea of driving LEDs from track power and reducing or eliminating flicker, I posted an idea using small diodes and a capacitor. I had another think and in my obsessive way to follow up an idea ,I wanted to make the device as small as possible so it could be used in the tightest space.
Hence the following. Use a small surface mount bridge rectifier, add the capacitor and heat shrink. To make it easier to work on I decided to use some paired flexible copper strip I have had for a while. It solders easily and is quite strong. It is not possible to cut the copper strip without damaging it so I used the following idea. Some photos :
DSCN0442.jpg
This was one piece which I cut with scissors.
DSCN0445.jpg
A small edge was turned back on itself and squashed flat. This piece is then lightly glued to the end of the other piece. The turned up edge prevents any possible short circuit.
DSCN0447.jpg
This shows where the bridge will sit when soldered across the join.
DSCN0451.jpg
Soldered and wires attached, compared to an earlier version.
DSCN0453.jpg
Final product. 20mm x 6mm at widest point.
Ecos LED driver.jpg
Previous versions with diodes. Smallest about 32mm.

The capacitor is strictly not necessary as the LED will not flicker without it but a flashing LED requires it . My friend with a Marklin show layout uses flashing LEDs embedded in track to attract attention to particular areas.
NOTE the capacitor in this instance is connected directly across the output of the bridge and on my ECOS digital layout the DC voltage reads 21.6 unloaded which is RMS (root mean squared) voltage. The peak voltage from rectified AC or digital power will be 1.4142 times that and that is what the capacitor will be exposed to. Hence a voltage rating of at least 35 Volts is required. As a small value (1 µF in this case) is ample for a couple of LEDs in series, the capacitor will still be very small.
Thanks,
Howard.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by ixldoc
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2016 17:32:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Howard!
Originally Posted by: ixldoc Go to Quoted Post
The peak voltage from rectified AC or digital power will be 1.4142 times that and that is what the capacitor will be exposed to.
For sine-wave AC the factor is 1.41 (square root of 2), but for digital track voltage the factor is 1.0.

25 V should be enough for H0 gauge digital.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline ixldoc  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2016 22:18:22(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Hello Tom,
I agree. I understand the digital voltage is a high frequency square wave but on my CRO it seemed offset, i.e. asymmetrical. I wasn't sure if the usual formula applied to this , so I opted for the safe bet of 1.4142 for the post, especially after our recent discussion. I am interested in the track voltage, frequency and waveform and I would appreciate if you could help me out there. ( My background is medical but my interest in electronics arrested at the IC stage !)
Regards,
Howard.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2016 22:36:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ixldoc Go to Quoted Post
I am interested in the track voltage, frequency and waveform
Complicated.

You can drive trains using MM protocol by connecting an amplifier (booster) to the RS-232 port of a PC and setting the RS-232 to 38400 bps and 6N1. All six databits will either be 1 or 0, so actual frequency is around 5000 Hz.

With DCC there are two polarity changes per bit. Quick changes for 1 bits, slow changes for 0 bits. Minimum and maximum timings for 1 and 0 can be found in the NMRA specification and 0 bits allow a good deal of variation of the timings, thus the frequency varies between different controller implementations and depending on the data that is being sent.

With mfx (controller to loco) the bits have a fixed length, but 1 bits have an extra polarity change in the middle while 0 bits only have a polarity change at the end. Again frequency varies by data.
Filler bits will be added to prevent mfx signals from being valid DCC packets

More about MM protocol:
http://spazioinwind.libe...it/scorzoni/motorola.htm

More about DCC:
http://www.nmra.org/site...t/files/s-92-2004-07.pdf
Also see other documents on same site.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline ixldoc  
#5 Posted : 26 January 2016 06:27:37(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Thanks Tom,
I knew there was a reason I stayed away from computer programming!.
I had a look at the sites and I will now go and take something for my headache.
Best thing from all this for me is that it got my understanding of digital track voltage to a more acceptable level.
Regards,
Howard.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ixldoc
H0
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 28 January 2016 19:36:36(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
very nice, thanks for sharing.
I find the discussion on the rectified voltage interesting also. On one hand I think, stay safe and assume 35V but I also think that lower voltage may allow smaller components...
what about trying a rectifier and cap designed for only the lower voltage and do a long bench test and see if it gets hot or burns out????
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline ixldoc  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2016 01:54:54(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Aha Dale, I see you live on the dark side!

The problem with electrolytics and tag tantalum caps is they are prone to rupture and sometimes do so without warning even with age.
Some cans have a pre-weakened area on the top designed to give way in less spectacular fashion.

Having said that I have a lovely Nixie tube clock in which one of these caps blew up when a 4mm ant got in and shorted an SMD diode. It was totalled , just a brown mark and some scraps of metal left. The designer and maker was kind enough to send me 3 replacement parts I needed for postage only, and I nerved up and soldered them in with success.

I would love to have more electronic theory.

Regards,
Howard.
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