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Offline Brakeman  
#1 Posted : 14 November 2014 16:44:36(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Southern California
Hello,
I had nasty surprise when unboxing after a year or two my American car collection. The newer style model boxcars had warped badly!
Some of them looked like bananas with cracked body and bent floorplate.



Looks like the metal floorboards had expanded warping the plastic bodies. Four of these were NYC Pacemaker cars and six ATSF boxcars. The first sign of warping is the truck screw bosses getting tilted inwards. The couplings get stuck and trucks are improperly aligned.
These cars are from time they were introduced around 2005-2006.
Is this today's zinkpest problem? Was the alloy chinese manufacturer used impure?
Have you seen this same problem?

I'll try to contact Marklin USA and see if there is an answer.
If not I may need to ebay the rest of my boxcars.

Sorry for the bad news,

Juha Ponkala

Edited by user 23 November 2014 22:33:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Brakeman attached the following image(s):
29571 NYC Boxcar b.png
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Offline NS1200  
#2 Posted : 14 November 2014 17:21:38(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Bad luck!
I do not fancy these plastic cars from Marklin anyway,cheap production,a shame for Marklin really.
Prefer much more the tinplate boxcars and tankcars,Marklin have issued some new sets over recent years,which is good.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#3 Posted : 14 November 2014 17:36:52(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi,

Not good to see you have been surprised with a number of these warped cars. From a broader perspective, it is not new, though. Already in 2013 there are several mentions of this issue, for instance here:

https://www.marklin-user...est-again.aspx#post71449
http://stummiforum.de/vi...79b9fc88c085d0da0ffb93d7
http://forum.beneluxspoo.../index.php?topic=51479.0

I realize the latter two aren't in English, but translation through http://translate.google.com should be helpful. Judging from these reports, it is only certain series, including the 29571 that are affected, other series do not show this issue at all.

Hopefully this sheds some additional light on the matter.
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 14 November 2014 17:47:28(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,483
Location: westernmost
Sorry to read that there is another victim. This issue with the 40 ft box cars was addressed in this and other forums. I experienced the same last fall with the PRR and the ATSF sets. For that reason, I "converted" to 50 ft tin plate box cars ever since.

I returned the faulty articles - through my M* dealer - to mother M*. After almost one year without reaction, the M* dealer increased the pressure on M* after receiving more customer complaints on warped 40 ft box cars form other customers, too. Last news: M* wants to see the purchase receipt...

To be continued.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 14 November 2014 21:10:39(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,829
Location: NY, NY
WHOA! Marklin should stand by those and replace- that is unacceptable. I don't want t change this to a chinese production rant, but the stuff they made there is really proving disastrous. (early Kof, Seetal croc frames etc...)
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline Mark_1602  
#6 Posted : 15 November 2014 08:31:29(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Hi everybody,

It's true that those boxcars were actually made in China between 2004 and 2009 at least. The problem is that the floors of those US cars are made of zinc alloy, and the Chinese factory often used an impure mix or the wrong proportions. I had most of those cars as well, but back in 2012 I read the story and saw a few photos on Stummis Forum, so I decided to sell them all on Ebay. I didn't get much money for them because most buyers have heard about the 'modern' zinc pest by now, but I got rid of them in time.

Actually, I remember that one Ebay member asked me an interesting question about one of those sets. He wanted to know if the couplers of the box cars were difficult to move. They should get back into the middle position automatically if you move them left or right with your finger. If that's NOT the case, you have the first symptom of the zinc pest. My cars were not warped, but one Santa Fe box car had that little problem with the couplers.

It's true that only some cars are affected, but the zinc pest can still strike many years after the cars were produced. I even sold the sets that were produced in 2012 because I don't know where they were made, and I only have metal box cars now. Unfortunately the Märklin company was run by hired managers for a long time, and most of them were poor decision-makers. Now there are new owners who really care about their company. ThumpUp

Märklin has certainly stopped using metal parts made in China now, so this year's plastic box cars should be all right. The present owners will not repeat such mistakes again and are working hard to deliver good quality. I still trust and buy Märklin products, but I check everything very carefully when it is delivered. Cool

Best regards,
Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 15 November 2014 09:52:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Märklin has certainly stopped using metal parts made in China now [...]
Why is this certain?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline AshleyH  
#8 Posted : 15 November 2014 11:40:09(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 650
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
This is a worry, I have about 60 of these cars, dating back to the launch of the Big Boy.

Are the livestock cars and hoppers also effected, how far does this date back?
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 15 November 2014 12:45:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
how far does this date back?
It seems that box cars from 2004 and 2005 are affected.
Ref. numbers 29570/1/5 and 45651, maybe also others from that time.
So far I don't see any warping with my 45650/1 freight cars. I do hope that my cars are not suffering zinc pest and will stay intact.

AFAIK no problems were reported against more recent box cars.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline foumaro  
#10 Posted : 15 November 2014 13:29:20(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
No problem till today,i have 40 of them.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#11 Posted : 15 November 2014 15:20:49(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Märklin has certainly stopped using metal parts made in China now [...]
Why is this certain?



Hi everybody,

It's certain because the managers who have led the company since the insolvency aren't stupid. They'd lose their remaining customer base if they still used zinc alloy made in China. What is not certain is where the 2012 box car sets were made; I mean 45656, 45655, 45653, and 45654. I suppose they were made in Europe, but I can't tell: I don't have any evidence, so I decided to sell them all. Now I'm sure that I don't have any US cars made in China.

Another thing that is uncertain is whether all plastic cars and coaches will now be made in Europe that the extension of the factory in Hungary has been completed, but plastic cars can't get the zinc pest, so who cares if some of them are made in China? I care about where engines or metal cars are made.

If Märklin printed 'Made in Germany', 'Made in the EU', or 'Made in China' on the boxes, they might sell more. It's sad that those Märklin products which are still produced in Göppingen do not even carry that label. Most customers wouldn't mind a 'Made in China' label on cheaper products such 'MyWorld', and in Hungary Märklin just has to improve quality control and workers' skills to do a good job. That can be done ... Smile

Best regards, Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline NS1200  
#12 Posted : 15 November 2014 15:24:41(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
In addition to possible warping,i found that the plastic boxcars are holding fragile parts which easily come apart,for example the footsteps on the corners,they are simply pinned in,no glue.
Once departed they are very hard to find back on the floor is my experience.
I asked the Marklin shop in Rotterdam,the answer being:no spare parts,you have to buy new cars!

So,once again: tinplate boxcars for me!
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 15 November 2014 18:09:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
It's certain because the managers who have led the company since the insolvency aren't stupid.
With other words: Märklin never announced something to that effect and you just hope it's true.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark_1602  
#14 Posted : 15 November 2014 21:13:56(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
It's certain because the managers who have led the company since the insolvency aren't stupid.
With other words: Märklin never announced something to that effect and you just hope it's true.



Hi,

If you're so cynical, why haven't you sold your Chinese-made box cars? Why are you holding on to that stuff while criticising the China production non-stop? That's neither logical nor coherent. Are most of the Märklin products you own made in China? In that case I can understand why you don't like Märklin. I've nearly finished selling my Chinese-made stuff on Ebay, so it's not a problem for me any more.

Märklin had about 6-8 bad years between 2000 and 2009, so it's taken some time to fix all of those problems. Mr Sieber has announced in interviews that metal parts are now made in Germany. ThumpUp

If I were a Märklin manager, I would hope that the bashers would never buy anything again, but the problem is that they can't forget the company and go on ranting forever. In a way, Märklin bashers are the most loyal fans ... BigGrin BigGrin

Best regards,
Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline Brakeman  
#15 Posted : 15 November 2014 22:27:48(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Southern California
Thanks Everybody for comments and links to other postings!

I just liked these authentic models and was exited to get them since the tinplate cars look clumsy and are quite "lionelish". The detail level was matching the american brand kits, which was necessary for Trix trying to penetrate to the market and looked great behind the PA-1. No real success, even the metal base plate that was supposed to mean quality turned out a lemon.

I still feel betrayed even the broken cars are close to 10 years old. All my friends in this hobby collect also Märklin models having stock over 50 years old. Even some you believe they got rid of the bad alloy, there really is no guarantee from the factory that the rest of my american collection wont turn junk in next decade or two. Märklin operates in batch mode. Parts are made and products assembled for yearly catalog run. It may take time when the same parts are made again for slightly modified run. That gives us hope, that the other batches had proper alloy.

I have nothing against manufacturing products in cheap labor countries, but I try to buy domestic products if possible. I work for multinational consumer goods company that has/had production in Europe, Americas, China and Vietnam. The products made in every factory met same quality standards. There was no difference, and customers believed in the brand. It needs of course work, you need to have people on-site monitoring the suppliers and having constant quality control. Basically you get what you pay for. Perhaps somebody saw easy money in ODM model and didn't follow up the process.

Regards,
Juha
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 16 November 2014 08:06:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Mr Sieber has announced in interviews that metal parts are now made in Germany. ThumpUp
Did he say this unconditionally and without restrictions? Probably not.
Some naïve Märklin lovers who claim to be not naïve often write untrue statements about Märklin because they leave restrictions and conditions out.
Can you give us a link to that interview?

I have no problem with items made in China and therefore I see no need to sell them.

I don't believe Märklin gave up production in China completely. And I ask for sources if naïve Märklin lovers produce statements I cannot believe.
You call this stalking.
You're "stalking" with your "pro Märklin" statements: where can I read that all Märklin metal parts are completely made in Europe now?

I want transparency. I ask for references when I read something I don't believe.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline NS1200  
#17 Posted : 16 November 2014 10:38:32(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
It's certain because the managers who have led the company since the insolvency aren't stupid.
With other words: Märklin never announced something to that effect and you just hope it's true.



Hi,

If you're so cynical, why haven't you sold your Chinese-made box cars? Why are you holding on to that stuff while criticising the China production non-stop? That's neither logical nor coherent. Are most of the Märklin products you own made in China? In that case I can understand why you don't like Märklin. I've nearly finished selling my Chinese-made stuff on Ebay, so it's not a problem for me any more.

Märklin had about 6-8 bad years between 2000 and 2009, so it's taken some time to fix all of those problems. Mr Sieber has announced in interviews that metal parts are now made in Germany. ThumpUp

If I were a Märklin manager, I would hope that the bashers would never buy anything again, but the problem is that they can't forget the company and go on ranting forever. In a way, Märklin bashers are the most loyal fans ... BigGrin BigGrin

Best regards,
Mark


Mark,i have sent you a personal mail (PM).

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline NS1200  
#18 Posted : 16 November 2014 12:52:39(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Originally Posted by: Brakeman Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Everybody for comments and links to other postings!

I just liked these authentic models and was exited to get them since the tinplate cars look clumsy and are quite "lionelish". The detail level was matching the american brand kits, which was necessary for Trix trying to penetrate to the market and looked great behind the PA-1. No real success, even the metal base plate that was supposed to mean quality turned out a lemon.

I still feel betrayed even the broken cars are close to 10 years old. All my friends in this hobby collect also Märklin models having stock over 50 years old. Even some you believe they got rid of the bad alloy, there really is no guarantee from the factory that the rest of my american collection wont turn junk in next decade or two. Märklin operates in batch mode. Parts are made and products assembled for yearly catalog run. It may take time when the same parts are made again for slightly modified run. That gives us hope, that the other batches had proper alloy.

I have nothing against manufacturing products in cheap labor countries, but I try to buy domestic products if possible. I work for multinational consumer goods company that has/had production in Europe, Americas, China and Vietnam. The products made in every factory met same quality standards. There was no difference, and customers believed in the brand. It needs of course work, you need to have people on-site monitoring the suppliers and having constant quality control. Basically you get what you pay for. Perhaps somebody saw easy money in ODM model and didn't follow up the process.

Regards,
Juha


Juha,buying trains is like buying cars,what the one person finds ugly the other person finds beautiful,same with women,houses,clothes,anything.
For me,i am not looking for ultimate detail,i am looking for the Marklin "feel" a memory from my youth,a time of poverty,me as a boy playing with my first Marklin starterset on the floor of the livingroom,near the only stove in the house,i must have been the happiest boy in the world at that time!
As such,i am still collecting sixties style Marklin items,call it my trauma if you wish.
I think the tinplate USA boxcars are superb,and almost indistructable,i recently bought the 45644 10 car set,and more will follow,they look great behind the 3060/3061 Santa Fe F7 units,first sold in 1961!
Next set will be the 47760,six tinplate boxcars with a Union Pacific caboose.
Same with locomotives,purchased last week the classic 3084 and the 3093,heavy metal with limited detail,i just love them!
In addition,i bought a factory new gauge 1 Maxi 3-axle steamer called Rossle,a toy for some,but for me heavy metal Marklin to show in a glasscabinet!
As the saying goes: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Cheers,
Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline Mark_1602  
#19 Posted : 16 November 2014 15:32:00(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Mr Sieber has announced in interviews that metal parts are now made in Germany. ThumpUp
Did he say this unconditionally and without restrictions? Probably not.
Some naïve Märklin lovers who claim to be not naïve often write untrue statements about Märklin because they leave restrictions and conditions out.
Can you give us a link to that interview?

I have no problem with items made in China and therefore I see no need to sell them.

I don't believe Märklin gave up production in China completely. And I ask for sources if naïve Märklin lovers produce statements I cannot believe.
You call this stalking.
You're "stalking" with your "pro Märklin" statements: where can I read that all Märklin metal parts are completely made in Europe now?

I want transparency. I ask for references when I read something I don't believe.



From the German "Modellbahn Illustrierte", September/October 2014 issue:

Florian Sieber: "... da wir nur in Göppingen das Know-How in der Metallfertigung besitzen." (p.57)
in English: "... as we only have the know-how in the production of metal [parts] in Göppingen."

Untrue statements? You wrote in one post that the 00/H0 gauge was introduced by Trix in 1935 and you quoted Wikipedia. Sorry, but Wikipedia was wrong there. The 00/H0 gauge of 16.5 mm was first introduced by the British toy company Bassett-Lowke in the early 1920s. The German engineer Stephan Bing was asked to take care of the production of those trains, which were mechanical at first but electric from about 1925.

References:
Märklin - Die Legende Lebt, Klartext Verlag, Essen 2009, p. 65
Märklin: Miroir de son temps by Eric de Ville and Alain van den Abeele, Editions GSN, Bruxelles, 2002, pp. 149-150

Best regards from a true Märklin fan, Cool Cool
Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 16 November 2014 18:22:08(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,068
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I don't have any of these cars, and have never seen this problem other than on pictures; but:

How can you conclude that this has anything to do with zincpest??

The floor-plate of those cars looks like they have grown in length, OR the plastic upper part has shrunken.

I don't know if the floor-plates contain any zinc; but I have never seen any metal grow like that,
caused by things like zincpest, without clearly visible deformation.

Shrinking or expanding plastic, on the other hand, is quite "normal", and can be found on numerous other plastic products, Märklin not excluded.

Usually the problem comes if you mix two different kinds of plastic, which expand or shrink differently.

Are the floor-boards of these car metal, or are they plastic?

Not that this in any way help the owners of these cars, unfortunately Crying

Per.

Cool





If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 16 November 2014 18:46:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
From the German "Modellbahn Illustrierte", September/October 2014 issue:

Florian Sieber: "... da wir nur in Göppingen das Know-How in der Metallfertigung besitzen." (p.57)
in English: "... as we only have the know-how in the production of metal [parts] in Göppingen."
Other companies, producing for Märklin in Far East, also have this knowledge. US box cars, Köf II, Seetal-Krokodil, the 39401, and the BR 24 are examples.
And I think we can also add TRAXX, EuroRunner, and Ludmilla to that list.

Metal bodies can be found with locos from ESU, Liliput, Piko, and Roco, too. And they do not need know how from Göppingen either.


@Per: the box cars have frames made of metal die-cast. If the zincpest strikes. the frame can bend so far that the plastic cover will break.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 16 November 2014 18:59:14(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,068
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Thanks Tom.

From what I see on those pictures, the base plate of those cars are way too long, or the top part way too short.

I would love to be able to see this for real, it just looks very strange to me. Glare

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Hoffmann  
#23 Posted : 16 November 2014 21:58:13(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hi all,

As former Dealer I sold more then a 100 of these Cars and had no complains either for Trix or Marklin Cars.

I would be interested to know how these Cars where stored.

Below are a few pictures of a Marklin and a Trix Car in my possession.
Hoffmann attached the following image(s):
037 (800x600).jpg
038 (800x600).jpg
039 (800x600).jpg
040 (800x600).jpg
marklin-eh
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Offline Mark_1602  
#24 Posted : 16 November 2014 22:08:53(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
From the German "Modellbahn Illustrierte", September/October 2014 issue:

Florian Sieber: "... da wir nur in Göppingen das Know-How in der Metallfertigung besitzen." (p.57)
in English: "... as we only have the know-how in the production of metal [parts] in Göppingen."
Other companies, producing for Märklin in Far East, also have this knowledge. US box cars, Köf II, Seetal-Krokodil, the 39401, and the BR 24 are examples.
And I think we can also add TRAXX, EuroRunner, and Ludmilla to that list.

Metal bodies can be found with locos from ESU, Liliput, Piko, and Roco, too. And they do not need know how from Göppingen either.


@Per: the box cars have frames made of metal die-cast. If the zincpest strikes. the frame can bend so far that the plastic cover will break.



Sure, all items from your list probably used to be made in China for Märklin until about 2010 or 2011, precise date unknown. There I agree with you. That's why hundreds of people lost their jobs in Göppingen in 2004 and 2005. My latest Märklin engines (or cars) with a 'made in Germany ' label date from 2004. Märklin certainly deserves criticism for what happened during those unfortunate years, but Mr Pluta started moving production back to Europe.

I used to have the very nice-looking DSB Köf. No problem with it, but I've sold it (like the plastic box cars) because I don't want the risk of the zinc pest.
But you're wrong in hinting that they the stuff on your list may still be made in China now. On Stummis forum you wrote that you would bet that the Traxx engines were Chinese-made, but one member replied to you and said that he had witnessed the production of the Traxx die-cast houses in Göppingen during a factory visit. That evidence is good enough for me, but you don't have any evidence to prove that Märklin uses metal parts made in China now. Plastic cars may still come from there now, agreed. Sad

I don't approve of what Märklin did between 2003 and the insolvency, but I'm glad that Mr Pluta and the Siebers have saved the company. A few problems remain, but I trust those people to do a good job. Everybody has to decide what to believe for himself, of course. The customer's king, and Mr Sieber knows that ... ThumpUp

Best regards, Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#25 Posted : 16 November 2014 22:09:26(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,483
Location: westernmost
As long as I had them they were either stored in the original boxes or sitting on the layout. Either way, always in a heated and well aired environment.
Offline mike c  
#26 Posted : 16 November 2014 22:11:10(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,282
Location: Montreal, QC
The metal fatigue issue in the Made In China boxcars was reported a few years back and anybody who is affected by this issue should contact their dealer, Jeff S at Walthers (Marklin USA) or send an email to service(at)maerklin.de

Maerklin may claim that they do not have to honour any obligations from prior to their restructuring (2009), but you should ask for a goodwill accommodation and see if they consent.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Brakeman  
#27 Posted : 16 November 2014 22:48:23(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Southern California
Thanks,
In the video I'm trying to show that the baseplate has grown 2.29 mm in length.

These cars have been stored last 4 years in a insulated non-climate controlled garage in Southern California. Temperature range varies from 10 to 30 C, which is well below the 60 C typically certified for cellphones. NYC cars have been in a cardboard box with dozens of other cars and ATSFs in their original boxes in a plastic container.

Regards,
Juha

Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post

...
From what I see on those pictures, the base plate of those cars are way too long, or the top part way too short
...


Originally Posted by: Hoffmann Go to Quoted Post

...
I would be interested to know how these Cars where stored
...
Offline Nielsenr  
#28 Posted : 16 November 2014 23:00:41(UTC)
Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 882
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I have the 45651 box car set and I first noticed the problem about three years ago when running a long line of freight cars behind a Bigboy. I was getting shorts occasionally and finally isolated it down to the cars in this set. The couplers wouldn't move on the cars which caused them to be pulled off the tracks going through curves. It is my opinion that the chassis area expands which them warps and breaks the plastic bodies. And the chassis becomes extremely brittle. I never did anything with them, I think I still have all three stashed away somewhere.

Robert
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Offline foumaro  
#29 Posted : 17 November 2014 04:13:32(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
I have the 45651 box car set and I first noticed the problem about three years ago when running a long line of freight cars behind a Bigboy. I was getting shorts occasionally and finally isolated it down to the cars in this set. The couplers wouldn't move on the cars which caused them to be pulled off the tracks going through curves. It is my opinion that the chassis area expands which them warps and breaks the plastic bodies. And the chassis becomes extremely brittle. I never did anything with them, I think I still have all three stashed away somewhere.

Robert


You can keep the little parts of the cars like the movable steps or wheels,springs for spare parts for other wagons.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#30 Posted : 17 November 2014 16:37:11(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
I have the 45651 box car set and I first noticed the problem about three years ago when running a long line of freight cars behind a Bigboy. I was getting shorts occasionally and finally isolated it down to the cars in this set. The couplers wouldn't move on the cars which caused them to be pulled off the tracks going through curves. It is my opinion that the chassis area expands which them warps and breaks the plastic bodies. And the chassis becomes extremely brittle. I never did anything with them, I think I still have all three stashed away somewhere.

Robert


Hi Robert,

That's interesting. So the guy who asked me on Ebay if the couplers of the cars in my auction were easy to move was right; he knew what the first symptom was. Out of about 30 or 40 box cars or reefers I used to have, only one had that little problem, and of course it was a car from the 45651 Santa Fe box car set. The cars from that set seem to be the most common victim of the zinc pest.

According to what I have read on other MRR forums, Märklin might replace the cars if they were purchased from an official dealer and if you can provide a copy of the receipt, but there's no guarantee. You may contact their customer service. A friendly email in which you explain that you have been a regular customer for a long time and state the name of your Märklin dealer won't cost anything, but might help. They're scheduled to produce new US cars this year ... Wink

Best regards, Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline Brakeman  
#31 Posted : 03 December 2014 20:34:35(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Southern California
Thanks Mike,
I emailed a week ago both Märklin service department, Brand Manager Jeff Stimson, also member of this forum, and copied my dealer.
So far no response.

Regards,
Juha



Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The metal fatigue issue in the Made In China boxcars was reported a few years back and anybody who is affected by this issue should contact their dealer, Jeff S at Walthers (Marklin USA) or send an email to service(at)maerklin.de

Maerklin may claim that they do not have to honour any obligations from prior to their restructuring (2009), but you should ask for a goodwill accommodation and see if they consent.

Regards

Mike C


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Offline mike c  
#32 Posted : 03 December 2014 22:16:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,282
Location: Montreal, QC
The issue is muddied by the fact that EU and US norms for country of origin are different. US regulations require that the COO (country of origin) is labelled as the country where the lion's share of production occurred while the EU regulations require that the country where the final assembly takes place be in the EU to qualify as "Made In EU". This means that Maerklin or other companies can continue to use parts sourced overseas in models that are assembled in the EU.

This means that an item for sale in the EU will be labelled "Made in EU" while the same item imported into the USA would have to state "Made in China" or "Made in Hungary" as the case may be.
Of my Hobby Traxx, the 36856 has a sticker "Made in Hungary".

That said, if Maerklin began the manufacturing of the Traxx models and commissioned 10.000 or 20000 chassis parts from China, there is a good chance that they are still using those parts in models that are today assembled at the plant at Györ.

I have a number of coaches that were Made in China (the 28cm TEE coaches), the 46321 type Grains Hoppers and others, so I periodically inspect them to ensure that there is no damage.

Many people expect that with the prices we pay for this hobby of ours, that we should get quality. Companies outsource production to make less expensive goods, but it seems that the savings have not been passed on to the clientele in terms of cheaper prices, but have been used to satisfy banks and shareholders in terms of profit. This is short term thinking that in the long run will affect the bottom line as quality shortcomings will reduce the profit in the future as the brand is damaged.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 03 December 2014 23:06:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The issue is muddied by the fact that EU and US norms for country of origin are different. US regulations require that the COO (country of origin) is labelled as the country where the lion's share of production occurred while the EU regulations require that the country where the final assembly takes place be in the EU to qualify as "Made In EU". This means that Maerklin or other companies can continue to use parts sourced overseas in models that are assembled in the EU.

This means that an item for sale in the EU will be labelled "Made in EU" while the same item imported into the USA would have to state "Made in China" or "Made in Hungary" as the case may be.
Märklin do not use any "Made in ..." markings for items sold in Europe, they add the "Made in ..." stickers to items sold through Walthers in the US - and therefore I assume the stickers must be placed in compliance with US regulations, not EU regulations.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline foumaro  
#34 Posted : 04 December 2014 03:33:44(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
I have the 45651 box car set and I first noticed the problem about three years ago when running a long line of freight cars behind a Bigboy. I was getting shorts occasionally and finally isolated it down to the cars in this set. The couplers wouldn't move on the cars which caused them to be pulled off the tracks going through curves. It is my opinion that the chassis area expands which them warps and breaks the plastic bodies. And the chassis becomes extremely brittle. I never did anything with them, I think I still have all three stashed away somewhere.

Robert


Hi Robert,

That's interesting. So the guy who asked me on Ebay if the couplers of the cars in my auction were easy to move was right; he knew what the first symptom was. Out of about 30 or 40 box cars or reefers I used to have, only one had that little problem, and of course it was a car from the 45651 Santa Fe box car set. The cars from that set seem to be the most common victim of the zinc pest.

According to what I have read on other MRR forums, Märklin might replace the cars if they were purchased from an official dealer and if you can provide a copy of the receipt, but there's no guarantee. You may contact their customer service. A friendly email in which you explain that you have been a regular customer for a long time and state the name of your Märklin dealer won't cost anything, but might help. They're scheduled to produce new US cars this year ... Wink

Best regards, Mark


I noticed the symptom of the couplers in the hopper car of the 29570 starter set.I realised the problem when this car always derailing on turnouts.I have not any of the others cars of the 29570 starter set.
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Offline jeehring  
#35 Posted : 26 December 2014 00:57:32(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Hi everybody,

(...)... Now there are new owners who really care about their company. ThumpUp

....(...)...

Best regards,
Mark

....the new owners are pure money makers with only one goal : increase profit as much as possible.
their credo is pure and cold industrial logic like that never existed before at Marklin .
They are very happy today with ex "hobby" or "marklin my world " range which, according to sources considered by me as serious, is going to represent half of their turnover .
As a manufacturer of traditional models they are losing their former knowledge ....For sure: the previous workers are gone!
The artistic quality of today's models fell ... because today's management and workers do not understand the meaning and is not interested in the artistic dimension of this work .. .the finish is irregular (more often mediocre and ordinary than neat) We feel that it is done by people who do not care.
coatings, varnishes and paints are bland & ordinary (excepted some weathered paints) .
Why Marklin does not use the same coating products as Micro Metakit (or Lemaco too) ?.... this is not the paint or the varnish that makes the price of Micrometakit models !
I don't even talk about some of their minimalist new designs.
Digital seems promising...they prepare the future : they 'll become software developpers & you'll just have to run those softwares on your own pad or pc..
I'm from the old generation, definitely !
( each time i'm talking about about the future of Marklin I hope I'm wrong ) Wink

Edited by user 26 December 2014 11:03:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Mark_1602  
#36 Posted : 26 December 2014 08:08:18(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Hi everybody,

(...)... Now there are new owners who really care about their company. ThumpUp

....(...)...

Best regards,
Mark

....the new owners are pure money makers with only one goal : increase profit as much as possible.
their credo is pure and cold industrial logic like that never existed before at Marklin .
They are very happy today with ex "hobby" or "marklin my world " range which, according to sources considered by me as serious, is going to represent half of their turnover .
As a manufacturer of traditional models they are losing their previous knowledge ....For sure: the former workers are gone!
The artistic quality of today's models fell ... because today's management and workers do not understand the meaning and is not interested in the artistic dimension of this work .. .the finish is irregular (more often mediocre and ordinary than neat) We feel that it is done by people who do not care.
coatings, varnishes and paints are bland & ordinary (excepted some weathered paints) .
Why Marklin does not use the same coating products as Micro Metakit (or Lemaco too) ?.... this is not the paint or the varnish that makes the price of Micrometakit models !
I don't even talk about some of their minimalist new designs.
Digital seems promising...they prepare the future : they 'll become software developpers & you'll just have to run those softwares on your own pad or pc..
I'm from the old generation, definitely !
( each time i'm talking about about the future of Marklin I hope I'm wrong ) Wink


Hi,

I can agree with some things you write, but others are really doubtful. I've been a Märklin customer since my childhood and got started in the 1970s. Like you, I'm also disappointed by the poor finish of a few models that were delivered to me in 2013. This year's order has been delayed, so I can't comment on that yet.
It also seems to me that the paint coat is more sensitive than it used to be in the past, and sometimes, engines are scratched or have minor defects when they are delivered to the customer. Such problems were the exception in the past, but now they are more common. I also wonder if workers at the factory in Hungary, where most Märklin products are painted and assembled now, are unprofessional, overstretched or do not care. I don't know the answer, but I agree with you that the quality of Märklin products is not always what it should be.

As for the turnover, the lion's share of that is still Märklin H0 professional, not myWorld or Start Up. The new focus on toy trains for children is the only way to build the next generation of Märklin fans. Märklin is the market leader because in the past, Märklin trains were suitable for children. The kids of the 1950s, 60s or 70s are todays's customers, so the Siebers' toy offensive is the right thing to do, and it's the same thing Märklin used to do in the past. Books about the history of the company reveal that Märklin's strategies have not changed a lot in the last 100 years!!

The Siebers have invested so much money into Märklin. Can you blame them for wanting to make a profit? I'm sure you would also want a return on your investment if you were in their shoes. It's just a fact that it will take a long time until their investment really pays off, especially in a difficult and shrinking MRR market.

Let's make a historical flashback. Who were the previous owners, and how much did they care about Märklin products?
The three families that used to own the company until 2006 (Märklin Safft, and Friz) did very well until the late 1970s, when the last co-owner who worked as CEO, Herbert Safft, retired. After that the old owners increasingly disagreed and cared less and less about the company until they finally sold it to make a fast buck. Even back in the 1970s, when Herbert Safft was still co-CEO, the quality of Märklin products was compromised in some ways. They applied a thinner paint coat on engines to save money, some steam engines like the S 3/6 or the Br 03.10 were only powered on one axle, Primex products were simplified, the Br 03.10 (3094) got the wrong undercarriage (from the S 3/6) at first, etc. This was all done to increase sales and profits by lowering prices, so there's a historical precedent for what they are doing now. The worst profitmakers were Kingsbridge, who bought Märklin in 2006, but ironically, the company didn't make any profits then. Only Mr Pluta brought back profitability. If you like, you may call him a moneymaker because that's what he was supposed to do! The Siebers care a lot more about Märklin than most previous owners.

I know that quality was better in the 1990s than it is now, but if adjusted for inflation, prices were significantly higher back then as compared to 2014. As in the 1970s, Märkin is adapting to a market that demands lower prices. Real incomes are not rising any more, but have fallen slowly in many countries.

However, the historical perspective also reveals that today's quality problems are unprecedented. In the 1970s they made some compromises, but the overall quality and reliability of Märklin products was still very good as compared to now. The engines I used to play with as a child could run on dusty tracks on our unheated attic for hundreds of hours with very little servicing. They were much sturdier, true. I agree with your last point that today's focus on electronics is exaggerated and is partially responsible for some problems, but not most. Cost-cutting has been pushed too far, so some customers have stopped buying. I also order less now ... Every book about Märklin I have says that this company triumphed over its competitors in the past because of the superior quality of its products, but for the first time in history, that's not true any more.

Yesterday I watched a one-hour movie that was made by Hagen van Ortloff, the expert for railways on German TV, for Märklin's 140th anniversary in 1999. It showed the highly skilled and reliable workers Märklin used to have in Göppingen, but by now most of them have either retired or been sacked and production in Göppingen is the exception, not the rule ...

Best regards, Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline Armando  
#37 Posted : 11 January 2015 23:53:35(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,324
Location: Houston, Texas
Hello all,

I have been following this thread with interest since I, over the years, have acquired several of these (cheap) Chinese-made Märklin US freight car sets.

I have been taking them all out of their boxes and checking them. So far so good, except for today. I noticed that my Pennsylvania Railroad 40-ft cars, 45650, are suffering from the accursed pest. They're all twisted and bent.

A similar situation happened to me with the Seetal croc, which I had to return to Märklin in Germany, as its chassis was breaking down with the pest. Märklin did not have the grace to honour the replacement parts or the shipping costs at that time. Cursing

This Pennsy set was acquired in Canada sometime in 2010. It has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment. So other than the cheap materials used by Märklin, what could possibly trigger this pest?

I have already written to my dealer in Canada for his assistance in this matter. I don't know how lucky I will be to have them replaced or refunded by Märklin.



Cheers!
Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline Brakeman  
#38 Posted : 12 January 2015 07:07:01(UTC)
Brakeman

United States   
Joined: 14/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Southern California

Sorry to hear that Armando!
Your dealer is in a tough situation, the manufacturer seems to ignore the whole problem.

Regards,
Juha


Originally Posted by: Armando Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

I have been following this thread with interest since I, over the years, have acquired several of these (cheap) Chinese-made Märklin US freight car sets.

I have been taking them all out of their boxes and checking them. So far so good, except for today. I noticed that my Pennsylvania Railroad 40-ft cars, 45650, are suffering from the accursed pest. They're all twisted and bent.

A similar situation happened to me with the Seetal croc, which I had to return to Märklin in Germany, as its chassis was breaking down with the pest. Märklin did not have the grace to honour the replacement parts or the shipping costs at that time. Cursing

This Pennsy set was acquired in Canada sometime in 2010. It has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment. So other than the cheap materials used by Märklin, what could possibly trigger this pest?

I have already written to my dealer in Canada for his assistance in this matter. I don't know how lucky I will be to have them replaced or refunded by Märklin.



Cheers!


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Offline Mark_1602  
#39 Posted : 12 January 2015 19:14:51(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Armando Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

I have been following this thread with interest since I, over the years, have acquired several of these (cheap) Chinese-made Märklin US freight car sets.

I have been taking them all out of their boxes and checking them. So far so good, except for today. I noticed that my Pennsylvania Railroad 40-ft cars, 45650, are suffering from the accursed pest. They're all twisted and bent.

A similar situation happened to me with the Seetal croc, which I had to return to Märklin in Germany, as its chassis was breaking down with the pest. Märklin did not have the grace to honour the replacement parts or the shipping costs at that time. Cursing

This Pennsy set was acquired in Canada sometime in 2010. It has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment. So other than the cheap materials used by Märklin, what could possibly trigger this pest?

I have already written to my dealer in Canada for his assistance in this matter. I don't know how lucky I will be to have them replaced or refunded by Märklin.



Cheers!



Hi Armando,

Maybe they'll give you some cars from the 2014 or 2015 sets as a compensation, though I agree you need to be lucky there. Actually, I just wonder where the 2012, 2014 or 2015 US car sets are made. As M* has been announcing for years that they would move back part of their production to Europe, I was convinced that those plastic US car sets were made in Hungary, but in an older M* TV video that I watched by accident yesterday, it was said that the staff at the factory has to learn how to produce every single model before production starts. They've moved part of the gauge G, Z, and N production to Hungary, so their staff must have needed a lot of training to be able to produce those models.

So the question is which models are still made in China, but those people who know, i.e. the dealers, aren't supposed to inform us. They can tell because M* locomotives made in China arrive at MRR dealers (in Germany) in one bulk shipment, whereas those made in Europe are delivered to dealers in batches of five or so. That's what I've read on a German forum, but I think the guy who has said that doesn't want to be quoted, so I won't post a link here. It's unverified information, but intriguing. On top of that, there's now a rumour on a big German forum that the new M* Nohab might be made in China, but obviously that's unverified and only speculation. One guy claims that he got that information from a well-known dealer, and another guy who's a real M* supporter told me that the new M* Nohab isn't made in Hungary. (I think it's too cheap to be made in Germany, but who knows?) Last year there were unconfirmed rumours that the M* gauge I P8 was Chinese-made, and recently there was speculation on this forum that the new F8/F9 gauge Z diesel might be made there as well because it's a cooperation deal with a Chinese-based company, so I just wonder where M* is heading ...

In any case, they should tell your dealer to give you a US car set for free. Virtually all companies make stuff in China or in other exotic places now, but the least they can do is to keep loyal customers happy. Good luck!

Best regards, Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline cookee_nz  
#40 Posted : 12 January 2015 20:17:48(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,004
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Armando Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

I have been following this thread with interest since I, over the years, have acquired several of these (cheap) Chinese-made Märklin US freight car sets.

I have been taking them all out of their boxes and checking them. So far so good, except for today. I noticed that my Pennsylvania Railroad 40-ft cars, 45650, are suffering from the accursed pest. They're all twisted and bent.

A similar situation happened to me with the Seetal croc, which I had to return to Märklin in Germany, as its chassis was breaking down with the pest. Märklin did not have the grace to honour the replacement parts or the shipping costs at that time. Cursing

This Pennsy set was acquired in Canada sometime in 2010. It has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment. So other than the cheap materials used by Märklin, what could possibly trigger this pest?

I have already written to my dealer in Canada for his assistance in this matter. I don't know how lucky I will be to have them replaced or refunded by Märklin.

Cheers!


If I were in your shoes, I would be writing a direct personal email or letter to Florian and/or Michael Sieber of Simba-Dickie, the 'new' owners of Marklin.

Under the takeover agreement, Florian Sieber will join the current dual leadership of the company as the third Managing Director of equal rank, working alongside Wolfrad Bächle and Stefan Löbich. Sieber is well-aware of the responsibilities that his new role involves. ‘The Märklin name is synonymous with a whole category of toys, and has stood for top German quality since 1859’, he explains. ‘That is why it is my great pleasure to help shape the future of this traditional brand with a history dating back more than 150 years.’

The above excerpt from this link makes it clear that Simba-Dickie knows the value of quality.

And even though they may not have been in control at the time these items were produced, they did purchase the company, and I suggest this means not only taking on the positive prospects for the future, but also acknowledging the mistakes of the (recent) past - I say recent because you have to be reasonable or realistic. I think anything less than 5 years old and which is clearly a materials or production defect should be covered. Items 5-10 years old more on a case-by-case basis, anything beyond 10 years probably no change.

Marklin should in turn, have recourse on the actual manufacturers of the items to supply or manufacture replacements.

World-wide, what would be the value in replacing (or crediting toward a different purchase) those defective items, compared to their overall revenue?, especially when out of the overall production, probably only a small percentage who are informed via forums like this will bother making a claim anyway or even know about the problem.

It's the old story, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil". You have nothing to lose by writing and it would be very informing to see what the official response is from as high up as you can get. And, I would write first in English. Afterall, they produce also for the English market, otherwise there would not be translations on their literature and packaging. And I would expect someone as young and educated as Florian Sieber would have a good working knowledge enough to respond.

Cookee.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline SteamNut  
#41 Posted : 12 January 2015 22:36:47(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 458
I totally agree with M-Classics but I would add many other manufacturers have the same problem, such as HAG. This extends even furthered as evidenced by the number of recalls made (such as the latest air ball recall). I am a plumber by trade and even the trades are suffering from poor workmanship also for a number of reasons such as sales are more important then professionalism and upgrade everything even if it is not to the customers best interest - Fred
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#42 Posted : 08 April 2015 08:47:50(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,814
Location: Brisbane, Australia
A member of the 2 rail club to which I belong, has a huge collection of model trains, both British and North American.
They are kept in his house in favourable conditions.

About 10 years ago, he purchased a set of the Trix 24913, and never used them on the layout.
Of course he no longer has a purchase docket.
He opened the set last week, and they are all like this.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/tC4AAOSw-jhUBFzo/$_35.JPG

The cast metal floor has expanded.
Old Model Die Casting (MDC- Roundhouse) box cars with a cast metal floor (from the 1950s) don't do this.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 08 April 2015 21:18:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#43 Posted : 08 April 2015 20:24:13(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,483
Location: westernmost
Very annoying indeed. My 45650 and 45651 sets were turned in for repair in the fall of 2013. Last indirect communication via the dealer took place in October 2014. I just emailed a status enquiry to the dealer (who asked me to leave the matter to him).

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#44 Posted : 09 April 2015 13:52:41(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,483
Location: westernmost
I just learned: Märklin sent item 45645 to replace the 45650 and 45651 as the latter two sets are no longer available. This is very generous in my view.
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Offline Dangermouse  
#45 Posted : 09 April 2015 21:40:36(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
I wonder how Marklin would react to some enterprising individual offering replacement floors, either resin cast or machined from steel plate?

Given how common the problem is (and M's apparent intention to ignore it and hope it goes away) it strikes me that there's a gap in the market.

Hornby had a similar problem a few years ago, their response was to offer replacement locos or just a replacement chassis block, depending on how bad the damage was to the plastic parts. I believe they'll still offer a refund (if you've had the offending model in storage and only just found the zincpest).
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline Alsterstreek  
#46 Posted : 09 April 2015 21:48:05(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,483
Location: westernmost
Voilà, success !

Just picked up the full five car set 45645 plus one extra 45645-04 hopper car for free as compensation for the "lost" six box cars.

Thank you, Maerklin !

:o)
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Offline H0  
#47 Posted : 09 April 2015 22:13:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
Given how common the problem is (and M's apparent intention to ignore it and hope it goes away) it strikes me that there's a gap in the market.
Users on Stummi's Forum report that they send their zincpest floors to Märklin and get new floors in return.
If you send the whole cars back you will get new cars (different liveries) in return.

No gap if Märklin replaces the items for free, at least for US box cars. I don't know what they do about DB freight cars with zincpest. No free replacements for locos with zincpest.

I have the 45650 and 45651 sets and I hope I notice zincpest before the plastic box breaks. Actually I hope my cars will not develop zincpest, but you never know.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Dangermouse  
#48 Posted : 09 April 2015 23:16:23(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
If the plastic cracks your best bet for repair is probably to wedge it closed, and then paint the inside of the crack with liquid poly cement.

Don't be tempted to use tape or a rubber band on the outside as the cement will wick into the crack and possibly come through. If there's nothing touching the outside then at worst it'll form a slightly raised line (which you may be able to scrape off without leaving a mark after it dries). If something touches it the paintwork will be smeared. Use something like a heavy book against each end.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline nmbssncb  
#49 Posted : 09 July 2017 13:53:52(UTC)
nmbssncb


Joined: 07/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: ,
This is an old subject, but still "very alive".
I recently sent back the sets 45650, 45651 and 45652 to Maerklin (via my dealer) because nearly all box cars were warped.
I checked all the sets that contain box cars, also the 45649, and found, so far, no more warped box cars (or refrigerator cars).
However, because this "plastic zinc pest" only reveals itself after a number of years, I am afraid I might lose more box cars etc.

I had "real zinc pest" in my SBB Seetal 37521... The compensation that Maerklin offered at the time was unworthy of Maerklin's reputation. But maybe, Maerklin's decision at the time had to do with the financial problems they had at that time. My guess.

I will find out about the compensation for the warped cars soon I hope. Considering all sets were one-off items, I do not expect them to be replaced.


Willy
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Offline H0  
#50 Posted : 09 July 2017 14:47:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,465
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: nmbssncb Go to Quoted Post
[...] because this "plastic zinc pest" only reveals itself after a number of years, I am afraid I might lose more box cars etc.
This is real metal zincpest - the metal warps and the plastics break as a result of the warping metal.
Märklin cannot replace the plastics parts, but if you notice the zinc pest before the plastics break, you can return the metal frames only, thus retaining the box car liveries you bought.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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