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H0		#1 Posted : 28 January 2010 01:42:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		Hi, folks! On the HAG forum I found the following link (German only): http://www.nexusboard.ne...2408&threadid=313771 Long story short: EU regulations require switching power supplies instead of transformers. Märklin follows this requirement: no more transformers in 2010 starter sets! The sets with a CS 2 include a 60 VA switching power supply. Bad news for owners of CU 6021, Intellibox or Delta Control: these items will only work with AC, so keep your transformers. Transformers will still be replaced. Dealers can still sell the transformers they have on stock. CS 1 reloaded works much better with stabilized power supply. New CS 2 owners will also enjoy this benefit. Edited by user 21 May 2010 00:51:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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old toot		#2 Posted : 28 January 2010 04:15:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: christchurch, canterbury		that makes sense the one thing old transformers were known for was that their voltage was always variable and over stated voltage. digital stuff is very critical so far as power needs which is why digital layouts need power input every 2 meters so a constant and even supply is available over all the layout, which makes for happy running
		were we pickit, packit and postit
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Bigdaddynz		#3 Posted : 28 January 2010 04:49:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,669 Location: New Zealand		I can't see any downside to this decision! Now all M has to do is to up the CS2 current output to 4 amps to match the CS1 Reloaded.
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jeehring		#4 Posted : 29 January 2010 18:57:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		old toot wrote: that makes sense the one thing old transformers were known for was that their voltage was always variable and over stated voltage. digital stuff is very critical so far as power needs which is why digital layouts need power input every 2 meters so a constant and even supply is available over all the layout, which makes for happy running Voltage is one thing. Digital signal is another thing. Or not ? I'm not sure the "input" every 3 or 4 meters was for electrical power rather than integrity of digital code... . Voltage may vary with load. Digital signal may vary with distance What about electrical resistance of the track ? What about connections between pieces of Tracks ? What is a "floating output" ? ...... .... .. (too many questions on my mind)
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jeehring		#5 Posted : 29 January 2010 19:02:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,
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gachar001		#6 Posted : 29 January 2010 19:18:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,391 Location: Chennai		What is a Switching Power Supply?
		Gautham Atlanta, GA USA
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Rinus		#7 Posted : 29 January 2010 19:20:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		H0 wrote: Hi, folks! Bad news for owners of CU 6021, Intellibox or Delta Control: this items will only work with AC, so keep your transformers. Transformers will still be repaired. Dealers can still sell the transformers they have on stock. Can't imagine this is bad news for most non-CS 2 users. There are plenty transformers on the market (Viessmann, Uhlenbrock etc... ) often more powerfull an less expensive.
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rhobson1968		#8 Posted : 29 January 2010 19:22:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 382 Location: Simpsonville, SC		Supply and demand. Maybe the 12 or so Blue transformers I have will now sell on EBay for decent amount...
		Never quit building.
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gundamman		#9 Posted : 29 January 2010 21:36:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: North New Jersey		That include everything, such as the 60055? Like I stated eariler, just jumpped into the hobby feet first within the past few months... And are there universal transformers that would work with the CS1?
		I'd rather let 1000 guilty men get away, than chase after them. Chief Wiggum
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H0		#10 Posted : 29 January 2010 21:41:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		gundamman wrote: And are there universal transformers that would work with the CS1? You can buy switch-mode power supplies that take anything from 100 through 240 volts. Or buy the ESU upgrade ("CS1 reloaded") that includes such a power supply.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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RayF		#11 Posted : 29 January 2010 22:22:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		So what happens to analogue users? Is there no more facilty for running analogue unless you go second hand?
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Breitenfurt		#12 Posted : 29 January 2010 23:11:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland		gachar001 wrote: What is a Switching Power Supply? A unit to convert one voltage (ac or dc) to another (dc). The unit contains a constant frequency oscillator followed by variable pulse width modulator followed by a heavy duty low pass filter. The wider the pulse (12V) (and, thus, the narrower the space (0V)) the higher the smoothed output voltage will be. Not sure though how to build an ac output one. Transformers are so simple in comparison. Chris.
		• N & Z scale trains • Breitenfurt - Ost •
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H0		#13 Posted : 29 January 2010 23:57:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		RayPayas wrote: So what happens to analogue users? Is there no more facilty for running analogue unless you go second hand? Wait and see. Märklin's decision is based on EU regulations. I had a short look at that regulation, but gave up as my Legalese is not too good. Maybe this regulation does not apply to analogue model railroad, so transformers like 6647 may still be available. And spare parts to replace existing items are allowed for 10 years (so maybe the 60052/60055 will be around for some more years). The regulation applies to items that include a separate power supply. The regulation definitely applies to starter sets - and those are all updated by M*. I found no official information about this topic on the M* website.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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gachar001		#14 Posted : 30 January 2010 00:19:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,391 Location: Chennai		Chris Manvell wrote: A unit to convert one voltage (ac or dc) to another (dc). The unit contains a constant frequency oscillator followed by variable pulse width modulator followed by a heavy duty low pass filter. The wider the pulse (12V) (and, thus, the narrower the space (0V)) the higher the smoothed output voltage will be. Not sure though how to build an ac output one. Transformers are so simple in comparison. Chris. Thanks.
		Gautham Atlanta, GA USA
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xxup		#15 Posted : 30 January 2010 01:53:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,477 Location: Australia		gachar001 wrote: What is a Switching Power Supply? Thanks for asking this question...
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xxup		#16 Posted : 30 January 2010 01:55:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,477 Location: Australia		Chris Manvell wrote: A unit to convert one voltage (ac or dc) to another (dc). The unit contains a constant frequency oscillator followed by variable pulse width modulator followed by a heavy duty low pass filter. The wider the pulse (12V) (and, thus, the narrower the space (0V)) the higher the smoothed output voltage will be. Not sure though how to build an ac output one. Transformers are so simple in comparison. Chris. Thanks for the answer, but I am still not sure of the difference... So in goes 240V AC and out comes 17V DC.. Are the power supplies of the eCOS and CS1 already switching units??
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H0		#17 Posted : 30 January 2010 10:53:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		xxup wrote: Are the power supplies of the eCOS and CS1 already switching units?? ECoS and CS1 reloaded come with stabilized power supplies (switch-mode power supplies).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Breitenfurt		#18 Posted : 30 January 2010 11:00:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland		xxup wrote: Thanks for the answer, but I am still not sure of the difference... So in goes 240V AC and out comes 17V DC.. Are the power supplies of the eCOS and CS1 already switching units?? No problem, though not the clearest of explanations. Switching power supplies are ideal for analogue train. In fact a friend of mine has been using a bespoke switching supply for low speed running (remember, the 'spike' voltage is the maximum voltage - gets round dirt) for while now. On the other hand I am not so sure how it would apply to AC. It may be a read herring. Chris,
		• N & Z scale trains • Breitenfurt - Ost •
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H0		#19 Posted : 31 January 2010 12:54:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		Hi! I tested my CS1 with power supply vs. transformer. See here: https://www.marklin-user...m=230786&#post230786
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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jeehring		#20 Posted : 16 February 2010 15:35:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Don't you think that Brushless motors like Marklin SDS motors have better behaviour with switch mode power supply than with transformers ? (switch-mode power-supply is more suited to these motors) Don't you think that those brushless SDS motors are more "sensible" than ordinary motors to the change of power unit ? -Specially if running with a new kind of controler implementing "switch-mode power supply" instead of classical transformer with potentiometer - Also under "digital regulation" ( with MS2 or CS2/CS1) ? Also : in the future this new "swith mode" power supply will allow -probably- to add more accurate electronic devices on digital layouts ...(or not ?) PS End 2008 I remember Trix France saying that Trix planned to produce a new kind of "transformer" more suitable for "SDS-motors" than old tranformers , to run them on analog 2 rails layouts. After 2008, 2009 came with restructuring...we haven't seen anything yet.
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Hi4ever		#21 Posted : 16 February 2010 16:48:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 1 Location: Kungsbacka,		Hi! I read in the Märklin Magazine nr 1/2010, that they would manufacture switching power supplies in 18VA, 32 VA, 60VA and 110VA. /Anders
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john black		#22 Posted : 17 February 2010 20:05:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		H0 wrote: EU regulations require switching power supplies ... no more transformers Thanks for information, Tom. ... bananas, cucumbers, light bulbs - and now MRR transformers Totally decadent bunch of gangsters. Throw 'em out of town. For your relief, my friend - ours aren't better the least ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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RayF		#23 Posted : 17 February 2010 20:35:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. No longer will we be able to describe them as AC trains. This is the end of an era.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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john black		#24 Posted : 17 February 2010 21:04:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		You're right, Ray - it's the end of an era, alas (surely M isn't that unhappy about with the outlook of selling new controllers). Luckily I've bought lotta starter sets in the past thus being well equipped with spare transformers for years to come
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Hemmerich		#25 Posted : 18 February 2010 17:19:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		RayPayas wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. Easy answer: YES! (most older Märklin models are equipped with an "all current motor"). Edited by user 21 February 2010 15:18:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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hxmiesa		#26 Posted : 18 February 2010 17:30:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,522 Location: Spain		Hemmerich wrote: RayPayas wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. Easy answer: NO! Thank you for this clear and usefull information. A really in-depth explication of the subject at hand. Impressively enlightening!
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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john black		#27 Posted : 18 February 2010 18:06:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Comment removed by Webmaster 2010-02-21 20:29. Though there never a question was asked by us - statements it been Ray and me had made. Oh well ... Edited by moderator 21 February 2010 21:29:33(UTC)  | Reason: triple-avatar added
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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RayF		#28 Posted : 18 February 2010 18:53:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Hemmerich wrote: RayPayas wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. Easy answer: NO! Glad to hear it. Would you like to elaborate? How will they generate the AC?
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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H0		#29 Posted : 18 February 2010 21:37:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		RayPayas wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. No longer will we be able to describe them as AC trains. I don't think so. Digital locos can also be used for analog operation - but old locos won't run on DC, so there must be some sort of AC to use all locos. Analog transformers will be available for a few more years as replacements (I'm not even sure if they are affected by the EU regulations if sold separately).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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RayF		#30 Posted : 19 February 2010 00:27:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		H0 wrote: RayPayas wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, we will end up controlling analogue marklin trains with variable DC supplies. No longer will we be able to describe them as AC trains. I don't think so. Digital locos can also be used for analog operation - but old locos won't run on DC, so there must be some sort of AC to use all locos. Analog transformers will be available for a few more years as replacements (I'm not even sure if they are affected by the EU regulations if sold separately). Tom, you are mistaken. A traditional Marklin analogue loco will run perfectly well on DC. Try it! Of course getting the reversing pulse requires a higher voltage.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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H0		#31 Posted : 19 February 2010 00:44:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		RayPayas wrote: Tom, you are mistaken. A traditional Marklin analogue loco will run perfectly well on DC. Try it! You got me wrong, pay attention to the first half of my sentence: old digital locos won't run on DC. New digital locos will run on DC and will change the direction if the polarity changes (if DC is enabled).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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RayF		#32 Posted : 19 February 2010 00:51:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		H0 wrote: RayPayas wrote: Tom, you are mistaken. A traditional Marklin analogue loco will run perfectly well on DC. Try it! You got me wrong, pay attention to the first half of my sentence: old digital locos won't run on DC. New digital locos will run on DC and will change the direction if the polarity changes (if DC is enabled). Sorry Tom, I misunderstood you. I would have thought an old digital loco would still run in one direction on DC, but I must admit I haven't tried that.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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klinge-germany		#33 Posted : 19 February 2010 17:29:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Hamburg,		hmmm,seems to me that 'real' analogue operation with of M items is no longer possible, but as said earlier there should be thousands of trafos available second hand at ebay or others. but.... the 'charity' action of M from the last year(s) 'exchange your old blue transformers' for 'little' money becomes a 'stock clearance' behaviour for me... another marketing trick of them...
		alfred...with M since 1960...layout under construction (in mind...) collecting M items - but not a collector... editing posts only for tyops...uppps...typos
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john black		#34 Posted : 19 February 2010 18:48:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		klinge-germany wrote: ... the 'charity' action of M from the last year(s) 'exchange your old blue transformers' for 'little' money becomes a 'stock clearance' behaviour for me ... another marketing trick of them ... Hi Alfred, excellent - great comparison !!! Reminds me a bit of them bastard clowns crawling out of the woods, nowadays, and talking sheep into giving their precious gold for toilet paper "money" ... And of course I agree with your view re the end of classic analog operation. At least for those not in the know. Hope you're fine, my friend ! John
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Piggy		#35 Posted : 19 February 2010 20:21:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC) Posts: 590 Location: Sydney		I'm would like to know exactly what the EU rules says, regarding operating toys/equiptment requireng an AC power source in order operate. Not just what I read in the Marklin Magazine.
		Regards Kenneth CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
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David Dewar		#36 Posted : 19 February 2010 20:38:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,347 Location: Scotland		For a start here in the UK all transformers etc should be fitted with a UK three pin plug but nobody seems to bother when it comes to German model rail. Retailers should ensure that what they are selling conforms to the laws of their country but most Marklin sellers here are clueless even about what they sell never mind if it is dangerous. However I reckon nobody died so it is ignored.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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H0		#37 Posted : 21 May 2010 00:49:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		Märklin write on their home page that the 32 VA transformers for analog operation (6646, 6647, ...) will still be available as the new EU regulations do not apply to them. Nothing changes for analog drivers. The German text can be found here: http://www.maerklin.de/d...fos/schaltnetzteile.html
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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DamonKelly		#38 Posted : 21 May 2010 13:45:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,421 Location: Brisbane, QLD		Since this topic has been livened-up, I'll add some comments. 1. The banning of transformers is for safety reasons: if you connect the output of a 240V to 16V transformer to the output terminals of another 240V to 16V transformer, you get 240V on the mains plug of that second transformer. Not safe. Also impossible to prevent with a simple transformer. 2. It is quite possible to generate low-voltage AC using a switch mode supply. A battery to mains invertor does something just like that -- it converts 12Vdc for 240Vac. Imagine the same thing, but 240Vac input to intermediate Vdc to 16Vac (or variable Vac). It's true that I don't know of any off-the-shelf unit that does that, but it's not fundamentally difficult. Hmmm, a possible niche market...
		Cheers, Damon
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RayF		#39 Posted : 21 May 2010 14:58:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		DamonKelly wrote: Since this topic has been livened-up, I'll add some comments. 1. The banning of transformers is for safety reasons: if you connect the output of a 240V to 16V transformer to the output terminals of another 240V to 16V transformer, you get 240V on the mains plug of that second transformer. Not safe. Also impossible to prevent with a simple transformer. 2. It is quite possible to generate low-voltage AC using a switch mode supply. A battery to mains invertor does something just like that -- it converts 12Vdc for 240Vac. Imagine the same thing, but 240Vac input to intermediate Vdc to 16Vac (or variable Vac). It's true that I don't know of any off-the-shelf unit that does that, but it's not fundamentally difficult. Hmmm, a possible niche market... Hi Damon, I think the safety problem of connecting the two transformers back to back had already been addressed by Marklin in the white transformer, hence their free swap offer a couple of years ago. These latest EU rules relate to energy efficiency, in particular regarding equipment that has a "standby" mode. As an analogue trainset has no such standby mode the Marklin analogue transformers are exempt from this EU directive.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Bigdaddynz		#40 Posted : 21 May 2010 15:50:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,669 Location: New Zealand		Marklin will publish some more info on this issue in an article in an upcoming edition of the Marklin Magazine.
		WWW BLOG
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H0		#41 Posted : 21 May 2010 16:20:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		DamonKelly wrote: 1. The banning of transformers is for safety reasons: if you connect the output of a 240V to 16V transformer to the output terminals of another 240V to 16V transformer, you get 240V on the mains plug of that second transformer. Not safe. Also impossible to prevent with a simple transformer. Märklin solved this problem years ago with a TRIAC on the 230 V side. Therefore 60052/60055 and current 6647/6647 do not have this back-transformation risk.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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DamonKelly		#42 Posted : 21 May 2010 18:55:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,421 Location: Brisbane, QLD		H0 wrote: DamonKelly wrote: 1. The banning of transformers is for safety reasons: if you connect the output of a 240V to 16V transformer to the output terminals of another 240V to 16V transformer, you get 240V on the mains plug of that second transformer. Not safe. Also impossible to prevent with a simple transformer. Märklin solved this problem years ago with a TRIAC on the 230 V side. Therefore 60052/60055 and current 6647/6647 do not have this back-transformation risk. Thanks Tom, yes a triac is an obvious (in hindsight) solution! My experience with Märklin AC is the old ('60s) variable transformers, so I never considered such a simple solution. In my defence, I did say "a simple transformer" My electronic design career is low voltage, data acquisition and microcontroller stuff... And Ray, I agree, an analog variable transformer would surely have an extremely low "standby" current. So if the analog transformers are exempt, why are Märklin abandoning them (if they indeed are)?
		Cheers, Damon
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H0		#43 Posted : 21 May 2010 21:53:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,275 Location: DE-NW		DamonKelly wrote: So if the analog transformers are exempt, why are Märklin abandoning them (if they indeed are)? I wrote in #37 that 6647 and 6646 are kept in production because they are not affected by the new EU requirements. It seems there are currently no analog starter sets in their programme.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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