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Caplin		#1 Posted : 16 May 2008 02:58:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi there. I bought an old analog loco - 3168, which I would like to change. Here is the data list: 3168 1984-1988 Relais <u>LFCM</u> IV 1213 NS grau/gelb (Doppelpfeil) Is 60924 the correct kit to use on this LFCM? If no, what can be used? Shouldn't I install a Decoder "motherboard" to plug the decoder onto. If yes, please state part number. Are there other required part numbers to make a successful conversion. If yes, please list them.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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sudibarba		#2 Posted : 16 May 2008 06:30:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		Didn't look the Lok up but if it has a LFCM motor how about an ESU Hamo Magnet 51960 and an ESU decoder 52610. You can get an 8 pin connector if you want but unless you may change out decoders to sound or something later not really needed. Eric
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RayF		#3 Posted : 16 May 2008 13:57:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		It depends how much you want to spend on your model. For an old loco like this, which probably cost less than 100 euro, I wouldn't want to spend the same or more on a digital conversion. I would probably do as Eric suggests, with a Lokpilot and Hamo magnet. If you want better running, you could buy the seperate motor parts to convert it to 5-pole. If you search the forum you should be able to find a table some kind soul posted recently showing the part numbers for all the Marklin motor types. (I wish I had printed it out, it's so useful!) Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Sander van Wijk		#4 Posted : 16 May 2008 14:03:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Did this one a couple of times... And yes, it can be done with the 60904 set. To be more specific, with part numbers: 210888 (anker) 210882 (field magnet) 214121 (motor shield) (Source: http://www.bogobit.de or: http://www.hamst.de/html/umbausatze.html)
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Sander van Wijk		#5 Posted : 16 May 2008 14:05:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Additional note: you might need longer screws to hold the motor in place too!
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Caplin		#6 Posted : 17 May 2008 04:35:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Thanks guys for your suggestions. Much appreciated. @Eric and Ray: Does the ESU decoder 52610 have pins to plug into a connector plate? For the pluggable option I was thinking of an easy way of replacing a faulty decoder. Edited: Thanks Eric. @Sander: Do you mean longer screws than those included in the 60904 kit (12 mm)? Good links supplied, thank you. I am a little confused about the contents of the 60904 kit. It seems to include two different ankers and motor shields. Is that correct? Edited: answered by Bigdaddy, thanks. As the 60904 kit is quite expensive (including a decoder) could I then combine the three parts you listed for the 5 pole motor with an ESU decoder - LokPilot or LokSound? The 60924 kit replaced the 60904 kit. Are they alike except for new MFX decoder? [:I]
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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sudibarba		#7 Posted : 17 May 2008 13:44:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		The ESU comes with an 8 pin male connector. you can buy the female connector for about $4. Eric
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Bigdaddynz		#8 Posted : 17 May 2008 14:54:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Benny, re the screws, I guess it depends on the loco itself. When I converted my BR120 I used the screws from the 60901 kit, only to find that they were too long, and tightened the motor shield up too much, which caused erratic running. I ended up using the original screws that came with the loco, in fact with another 6 or so locos that I converted with the 60760 kit, I used the original screws in every case.
		WWW BLOG
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DaleSchultz		#9 Posted : 18 May 2008 01:42:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		I just chop the 8 pin connector off. Less space needed. Adding a female not only adds expense, it uses up even more space, and requires the same amount of soldering as simply soldering the decoder leads. If, and only if, you have to replace the decoder do you win anything by adding a female connector. In that case your penalty would be to solder a few wires.
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Caplin		#10 Posted : 24 June 2008 00:55:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Edited: Lost some of the original text [xx(] ... But I found that I should also have bought 2 chokes, one for each motor connection (I temporarily overcame that by borrowing the ones from a spare 60760 set). Would it harm the motor not having those? Now about the brushes. The motor has one of carbon and one of copper. The loco runs digitally by CS/MS, but should I replace them with two carbon ones? A test setup. Awating arrival of lamps and sockets.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#11 Posted : 24 June 2008 00:57:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DaleSchultz <br />I just chop the 8 pin connector off. Thanks, Dale. So did I.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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nevw		#12 Posted : 24 June 2008 03:17:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Benny, There is an Insert that goes into the Bulb Holder and a 19v Bulb goes into the insert. Thus isolating the original holder and the light wires from the decoder go onto it. SOcket 276770 Bulb 610080 Nev
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Caplin		#13 Posted : 24 June 2008 09:34:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi Nev, Thanks for the numbers. The bulb is a "snap-in" type, i.e. push in and turn cw to lock and ccw to release. I remember seeing an insert for a screw type bulb holder. But can your numbers be used with this all metal bulb holder?
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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nevw		#14 Posted : 24 June 2008 10:29:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin <br />Hi Nev, Thanks for the numbers. The bulb is a "snap-in" type, i.e. push in and turn cw to lock and ccw to release. I remember seeing an insert for a screw type bulb holder. But can your numbers be used with this all metal bulb holder? Not sure Benny. I will check with someone who knows. Nev
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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nevw		#15 Posted : 24 June 2008 10:40:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Benny, Remove the backing plate. that will take away the Bulb Holder, then push in the Plastic Socket. Nev PS So I have been told. I had Screw in Bulbs. A picture of the socket:
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Caplin		#16 Posted : 26 June 2008 11:31:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi. Please allow me to draw your attention to a couple of prior questions of mine? Thanks in advance. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin<br />.. But I found that I should also have bought 2 chokes, one for each motor connection (I temporarily overcame that by borrowing the ones from a spare 60760 set). Would it harm the motor not having those? Now about the brushes. The motor has one of carbon and one of copper. The loco runs, but should I replace them with two carbon ones?
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#17 Posted : 09 July 2008 02:52:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Unhappy to see no helping comments to the two questions just above here[:0]
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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nevw		#18 Posted : 09 July 2008 03:09:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin <br />Hi. Please allow me to draw your attention to a couple of prior questions of mine? Thanks in advance. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin<br />.. But I found that I should also have bought 2 chokes, one for each motor connection (I temporarily overcame that by borrowing the ones from a spare 60760 set). Would it harm the motor not having those? Now about the brushes. The motor has one of carbon and one of copper. The loco runs, but should I replace them with two carbon ones? 1. Not sure about chokes. think they are "Electrical noise" suppression only. 2. both brushes should be the same. n
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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hemau		#19 Posted : 09 July 2008 22:35:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 589 Location: The Netherlands		About the brushes: I would expect there is a relation between the collector and the type of brushes. I would expect the copper wire brush to act as a sort of cleaner and polisher. So I would'nt change the sort of brushes with this collector, unless another collector/anchor would be part of the set (which it isn't, if I see it right). Regards, henk.
		C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
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Caplin		#20 Posted : 10 July 2008 10:31:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Interesting observation, Henk. The anchor is the original one, and I have run this loco for hours now without any problems, so I will leave the unlike brushes installed. I wonder what members with a lot of conversions behind them, did regarding the brushes (i.e. HAMO magnet + decoder only).
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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nevw		#21 Posted : 10 July 2008 10:46:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Left the original brushes Benny.even when going to a 5 pole rotor. N
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Caplin		#22 Posted : 11 July 2008 01:52:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		OK - it sounds right, Nev. But did you ever convert a motor with two different brushes? - like mine here:
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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nevw		#23 Posted : 11 July 2008 03:04:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Benny, I have never in my short experience seen a motor with different brush types. It may have happened by mistake by previous owner. N
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Caplin		#24 Posted : 02 August 2008 03:52:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk <br />Additional note: you might need longer screws to hold the motor in place too! Yes, one of the original screws is too short [xx(] Please enlighten me on this: Does the picture show a 10 mm (thread alone) or a 12 mm screw (head + thread)?. As it happens the head in the picture is 2 mm and the thread is 10 mm and this is just too short for the upper right hand hole. On the next picture I have installed the 5 pole rotor and magnet and it is running (spinning wheels) but with an empty screw hole. What I need is a screw with 12 mm thread (14 mm total length). Can somebody supply a part number, please?
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#25 Posted : 02 August 2008 03:58:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw <br />Benny, I have never in my short experience seen a motor with different brush types. Nev, the mystery is solved. I found this while looking for something else : Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero - 2008/03/07 : 09:54:08 <br /> Check the brushes of your motor: if it has one copper brush and one coal brush side by side then it's a flat collector motor; if it has two coal brushes in opposite positions (as shown in the 30322 drawing) then it's a drum collector motor (DCM) and set 60921 will fit. My BR 81 is from a starter set (but I don't know which coz I bought it separately a few years ago) and it has a flat collector motor (FCM). Because there are FCMs of different sizes (called SFCM (small) and LFCM (large)), there are different sets to upgrade them. If you have a loco with FCM we still have to determine its size. ________________________________________ Allzeit Hp1 Tom Era III/IVa (mh, some Era V stuff and a few Era II items ...)
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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DasBert33		#26 Posted : 02 August 2008 11:01:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,245		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin But I found that I should also have bought 2 chokes, one for each motor connection (I temporarily overcame that by borrowing the ones from a spare 60760 set). Would it harm the motor not having those? It is the other way around. The question should be: Would it harm the decoder not having those. The answer is: maybe. The motor will generate a lot of spikes when it is turning, which can sometimes be seen as the blue arcing between the collector and brushes. A dirty collector more so than a new clean one. These spikes can be a quite high voltage and current. These spikes stress the mosfet drivers of your decoder, sometimes up to a point were they can burn out. Placing chokes on the motor driver lines will act as a low pass filter, and will greatly reduce the ampltitude of the spikes. The value of the choke also has an influence on the maximum PWM frequency your decoder/motor can run at. Bert
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Caplin		#27 Posted : 03 August 2008 21:16:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi fellow members. May I turn your attention to the 2 questions 3 posts above this one. They seem to be overlooked by later replies. Thank you.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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