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Offline lokbraz  
#1 Posted : 04 March 2008 03:45:10(UTC)
lokbraz


Joined: 03/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: San Francisco, CA
Hello everybody,

I just joined this forum. Unfortunatelly it is to give not so good news about a new Marklin release.[V] I receive the Mä 39401 SNCF 40100 and correspondent Etoile du Nord/INOX cars. After many months of delays they arrived.[:p] Mechanically is well sounded and prototypically, accuracy is most right. Like many of latest Marklin cutting corners (costs)[:(!], so frequent these days, expect some Marklin sub par things. Packaging of car sets for example. Aesthetically, I would say that they could include some minor things, as phoetched steps over bumpers and side grills with more impression of depth like the US PAs in the CC 40100. However, my main co mplaint goes to the cars. I believe that the window dimensions are wrong. The red railroad band should be almost half of its height. So the windows in the models are short in height. Some of roof details are missing. When I compare with a couple of LS models 69 Mistral became obvious these mistakes. The LS models inox cars are far superior as detailing, but not as rugged nor it will ride as good as Marklin's.

Now, my main grippe, the Mä 39401 SNCF 40100 decoder/sound arrangement. I was very excited to run it.[:p] When I first place on track, I played with function keys on my 6021 dig station. I liked the lights and at first, I was pleased with the electric motor sound until I blew the horn. It is the correct french horn sound, with one big problem. When you blow the horn the sound of electric motor/fans is interrupted.[:(] Next, I gave some speed to the lok and there was no slightest charge from the sound decoder.[:(!] It remained the same one to any changes in speed.[:(!] Finally, I decided bring the lok to a first stop and no sound of break squeal at all.[V] My thoughts were:" It's something wrong with this MFX/ Loksound board". I opened the lok and looked the electronic motherboard and first, I carefully lift the ESU board and made sure that ALL contacts were working. there were no changes. I removed the decoder again and compared against a Mä SBB Ae6/6 that has a MFX/ESU decoder. Both decoders where physically different. The 40100 has a smaller one.


I flip the side of 40100 ESU decoder and my mystery was finally found:[:0] On the corners I red ESU LP3. The sound comes from a proprietary separate board. You can see a detailed picture on this site forum under "Etoile du Nord / Oiseau Bleu" search keyword. This means that what Marklin call MFX was a mere lokpilot. How lame [:(!] Maklin is these days. Naming every new model as MFX, indiscriminately if comes with lokpilot or MFX/Loksound decoder. Quite interesting, the lokpilot may cost less than EUR 10 to Marklin and a Loksound about 4x more...Typical of deceiving Marklin new marketing strategies.

When I went back and red the catalog description together with Marklin symbology the MFX, compact Sinus and sound often show together. The only quite covert clue that is Lokpilot equipped is found under the following descriptions "Electric locomotive operating sounds" or "surround sounds".[:(!]

So, this model is another contender to many of recent Marklin flops, name: Henschel Wegman[xx(][xx(][xx(], TEE Gottardo, VT 08.5, which seems to outnumber its successes. If Marklin demands premium price for these expensive sets, it is clearly not delivering a premium product and leaving its customers and fans quite disappointed. My prediction that Marklin cutting corners policy it will cost in long run as other makes like Roco, Brawa, even small ones like LS models are delivering model with full features at more attractive prices.

Last, I noticed that the "soft drive/compact sinus" locomotives come with Lokpilot decoder and separate soundboard. My question to any knowledgeable person reading this site. Is it possible to replaced the lokpilot with Loksound or MFX/ Loksound sound decoder? Can I keep the marklin soundboard? Do I need to replace the speaker? Marklin speaker, how many OHMs? I think ESU already has a sound of SNCF C-C Ashton electric listed.

Thank for your time for going through my letter,

LokbrazCool

My ancestors came from the land of rising sun. I was born in South America. Spent time in Europe. Now I live in California.
So, I am a builder of south american brass models. I read about the railroads on the Sierras. But I play with Marklin and have best time with my Marklin peers. wink
Offline mmervine  
#2 Posted : 04 March 2008 03:58:33(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,821
Location: Keene, NH
Hello:

MFX has nothing to do with whether a lok has sound or not. There are MFX decoders with and without sound. Since this lok has an MFX decoder, it should have a 21 pin connector. You should be able to remove the Marklin sound board and install a Loksound MFX decoder. You will need a Loksound 100ohm speaker.

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline foumaro  
#3 Posted : 04 March 2008 09:07:38(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,347
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I see a lot of [:(!]
Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 04 March 2008 09:37:07(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,394
Location: United Kingdom
Sorry to hear that.

Welcome to the forum, Lokbraz.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 04 March 2008 10:49:05(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,768
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to also tell us about your positive experiences.

Do you have pictures of your layout or collection that you would like to share with us?

Looking forward to your contributions,

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 04 March 2008 14:03:29(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,983
Location: Scotland
Welcome. Like many members now we read reports of locos which do not come up to the standard that the customer thought he was buying. I think it is important to see the models first and if this is not possible try to find somebody on the forum who has them and ask questiond before buying.
Do you own other Marklin models which you are happy with or is this your first purchase.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline WelshMatt  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2008 15:17:22(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Interesting - I might be more inclined to go for the Hornby/Jouef versions of the Inox coaches now. I recall seeing a group test of them against the LS Models version in a French magazine, the general feeling seemed to be that while LS Models were slightly ahead the Jouef ones would be just as good if not better after a little detailing (mostly painting the interiors).
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline mmervine  
#8 Posted : 04 March 2008 18:01:17(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,821
Location: Keene, NH
I was going to ask if anyone had seen or tested the Jouef coaches. The Marklin ones look pretty nice to me. Has anyone done a direct comparison between the LS models and Marklin?

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline supermoee  
#9 Posted : 04 March 2008 18:02:20(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 532
Hello Lokbraz,

welcome to the forum.

Next time maybe you inform yourself a little bit better about the products you buy. This can save you from bad surprises.

Each Märklin Loco with only 2 sounds have only a separate soundmodule and not a sound decoder. This soundmodule cannot play 2 sounds at the same time. This soundmodule is detached from engine charge so the sound cannot vary. The sound module has no braking sound, wince it is not driven by engine charge.

The soundmodule is activated with the F1 and F2 functions, same as light or smoke device (on/off function)

All SDS loco with 21pin interface can be upgraded with the loksound mfx. You have only to pay attention on the resistor of the loco PCB. If there are any 0 Ohm resistors, you have to change some settings of the decoder before putting it on the interface. If not, your PCB and decoder will be destroyed.

kind regards

Stephan
Offline Davy  
#10 Posted : 04 March 2008 19:44:15(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
The coaches are tested on stummi's forum and their they find them very good. It is also a different kind of type coach then from LS models.

So the coaches are correct.

You should have know that this loc not has a complete sounddecoder on board.


And the loc drives perfect.


But welcome to the forum.


M-track with a CS2.
Offline Gkar  
#11 Posted : 04 March 2008 20:15:33(UTC)
Gkar


Joined: 05/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 102
Location: Fairfax, VA
Thanks for this topic, this was something I was totally unaware of, and was contemplating the purchase of this very lok! So now, from what has been said, an engine with only TWO sounds does not have a proper sound board, whereas those loks with more than two have a proper sound board. What would it cost to upgrade the 39401 to such a board, and what needs to be changed in order to do this? Is there a good website for this info? thanks!
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."
Offline Zora la rousse  
#12 Posted : 04 March 2008 21:22:28(UTC)
Zora la rousse


Joined: 02/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 856
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by foumaro
<br />I see a lot of [:(!]

A proper "hello" should be nice Smile.
You are never too late to become a Märklin fan.
Offline dntower85  
#13 Posted : 04 March 2008 21:57:02(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
welcome to the forum,

I understand your frustrations with your 39041 that is one of the things I hate about having to order something sight unseen. And you would think that as technology moved on that the cost of sound would go down and would improve. Its good that there is a separate board with a connector to make changing it easer, but I think I would like it better if it came without was just set up to take sound and you could just plug in what you want.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline WelshMatt  
#14 Posted : 04 March 2008 22:25:47(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
The only problem I can see with the Jouef/LS Models stock is that they don't come with close couplers, and that based on previous experience the LS Models ones will be very difficult to open to add lighting and passengers. Marklin's efforts in ensuring that you can get into coaches without wrecking them and that lighting units are available are to be applauded.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Hemmerich  
#15 Posted : 04 March 2008 22:38:50(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85
I hate about having to order something sight unseen.

Hi Darrin,

that's why you get some of these detailed infos for new items here, like in my thread https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...;SearchTerms=road,number

Please keep in mind that every Märklin loco mandatory needs a (dedicated) decoder and that not every loco is suited for installation of a sound or even another decoder. wink
Offline mmervine  
#16 Posted : 05 March 2008 04:28:28(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,821
Location: Keene, NH
Does anyone know the production status of these Marklin cars? It looks like they have been released, but are in short supply?

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 05 March 2008 06:31:39(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,188
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />The only problem I can see with the Jouef/LS Models stock is that they don't come with close couplers, and that based on previous experience the LS Models ones will be very difficult to open to add lighting and passengers. Marklin's efforts in ensuring that you can get into coaches without wrecking them and that lighting units are available are to be applauded.


I don't know if I agree with your assessment about LS Models coaches. My ex-TUI CNL and NS Couchette and SNCB Type P Sleeper coaches are very detailed, yet can be opened and modified for either day or night setting (seats or beds). On top of that, instructions for TAM or Viessmann lighting is provided with each model.

LS Models was to release models of both the Mistral 69 and Mistral 56 rolling stock. I think that Jouef has new models of the Mistral PBA (1966) coaches, as used on the Etoile du Nord and Oiseau Bleu routes.

As far as the lok is concerned, I do not have either of these models. I can pretty much assure that the LS Models version is more detailed and likely more fragile. The Maerklin model is probably a little more robust with perhaps a little less detail. If you prefer a metal chassis, the Maerklin lok would be the one of choice, if you want detail go with LSM or better yet, track down one of the Lemaco models from a few years back.

I have not yet seen the Jouef model, but I hope it is better than the old Lima one.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Hemmerich  
#18 Posted : 05 March 2008 14:47:52(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee
Next time maybe you inform yourself a little bit better about the products you buy. This can save you from bad surprises.

Especially when even the product description in the News2007 catalog contains a table which lists the possible "sounds" with this model. biggrin
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:This soundmodule cannot play 2 sounds at the same time.

May I correct you here: this sound module (#104798) contains 4 different sounds, but only two are activated with this model (the other two are different and quite nice station announcements). One of these four "sound" functions is the engine sound which can be turned on and stays on as long as it is not turned off again (i.e. not a single-shot function). While being turned on, you can still activate the other one(s), for example the signal horn. wink

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:The soundmodule is activated with the F1 and F2 functions, same as light or smoke device (on/off function)

The soundmodule is activated by the f2 (horn) and f3 (engine "sound") function - f1 is used to turn the red rear lights on; however, these functions are mapped to the decoder outputs as follows: f1-AUX3, f2-AUX1, f3-AUX2. wink

UserPostedImage

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:All SDS loco with 21pin interface can be upgraded with the loksound mfx.

Only if the longer sound decoder also fits there. Unfortunately this is not the case with all models that are factory delivered with just a normal mfx decoder; this loco is one of those cases (the decoder would be bent up; a -probably unsafe- solution might be to mount it with a slight angle onto the connector and place an insulation strip to the nearby components).

UserPostedImage

I really must say here that these two locos are anything than a flop from Märklin; they're just another good example for those very fine models which are offered by Märklin lately. [:p]
Offline soren36  
#19 Posted : 06 March 2008 23:23:02(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
As one with an "emotional" attachment (I rode the CC40100 / PBA many times in the 60s/70s) to this loco and one of many patiently awaiting her arrival to pull the INOX cars I already have - this thread initially alarmed me.

Regarding sound, for my e-locs I am really only interested in the whistle. But a little more thought as to price , plus other responses, has put me at ease. Note that this model is priced (in the US) from from US$50 to US$100 below that for those diesels and steamers that have multiple sounds available. Seems we get what we pay for wink.
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline WelshMatt  
#20 Posted : 06 March 2008 23:25:50(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mike c
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />The only problem I can see with the Jouef/LS Models stock is that they don't come with close couplers, and that based on previous experience the LS Models ones will be very difficult to open to add lighting and passengers. Marklin's efforts in ensuring that you can get into coaches without wrecking them and that lighting units are available are to be applauded.


I don't know if I agree with your assessment about LS Models coaches. My ex-TUI CNL and NS Couchette and SNCB Type P Sleeper coaches are very detailed, yet can be opened and modified for either day or night setting (seats or beds). On top of that, instructions for TAM or Viessmann lighting is provided with each model.

LS Models was to release models of both the Mistral 69 and Mistral 56 rolling stock. I think that Jouef has new models of the Mistral PBA (1966) coaches, as used on the Etoile du Nord and Oiseau Bleu routes.

As far as the lok is concerned, I do not have either of these models. I can pretty much assure that the LS Models version is more detailed and likely more fragile. The Maerklin model is probably a little more robust with perhaps a little less detail. If you prefer a metal chassis, the Maerklin lok would be the one of choice, if you want detail go with LSM or better yet, track down one of the Lemaco models from a few years back.

I have not yet seen the Jouef model, but I hope it is better than the old Lima one.

Regards

Mike C


Fair enough - I was basing my comment on my set of LS Models SNCF Grand Confort coaches which don't seem keen to come apart without breaking anything.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline TimR  
#21 Posted : 07 March 2008 07:21:40(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Hello Lokbraz,

Welcome to the forum...

To think about it, metal construction BR 103 (Any of 39573, 39579, 39579 or 37571) or Ce 6/8 (39560, 39561, 39562) had never been released with proper sound board either, despite being counted as the more expensive Marklin model this side of steam engines.

I would not call any of them a flop, but I guess Marklin did sacrifice sound features in order to keep price of these models more affordable. Personally I don't really mind as these models more than make it up with their looks and details Smile.

Of all Marklin new item lineups, I think the BR 218 (39180 and all the upcoming models) are the best value if you like proper sounds. Loud and crisp speaker; three types of horn sounds, station announcement, and full diesel engine running sound.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline mike c  
#22 Posted : 07 March 2008 07:46:36(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,188
Location: Montreal, QC
I don't know what happened between Maerklin and ESU. I am pretty sure that mfx was developed jointly or by ESU for Maerklin.
At some point, there was a step back, and the result is that instead of being equipped with ESU Loksound mfx, the loks are equipped with regular ESU mfx with a separate sound circuit. Since then ESU has also launched the ECOS system, competing with the Maerklin and Trix Central Station.
I presume that it is possible that Maerklin is going through it's supply of on hand ESU decoders. Whether future models will have ESU technology or either Maerklin's own or other is not known.
Perhaps one of our German members who has more frequent contacts with Maerklin insiders can provide a little more information about this.

Regards

Mike C
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