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Offline Larry  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2007 04:50:12(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Given all the competition from video games, iPODs, electronic action games and simulations, etc., I'd say the future of model railroading looks dim at best. It is clear that the youth, at least in the US, generally don't have model railroading on their list for Christmas and until recently there wasn't much to change that. However, today I was in a local Macy's department store and there on the main floor was a great display of Lionel's Polar Express set. While shoppers wouldn't see it operate, they had models out so people, including kids, could touch and feel the locomotives of different gauges.

Of course, the popularity of the Polar Express comes from a wonderful movie and not from the usual displays on US magazines of model trains in settings surrounded by dirt, grease, ugly junk and run down and old depressed settings. The display was very inviting at least for me. The set retails for $299 USD and is a great value since it is complete with the die-cast loco, 3 cars, track, transformer, etc. I have one in O-gauge and it runs great. I'm certain cheaper labor in China helps Lionel keep this price so low but that is not my point in posting this.

When in Germany, Switzerland and Austria this summer it was clear that the marketing of model trains is not isolated to specialized hobby stores. General merchandising stores carried some product lines and, in some cases, the inventory of Maerklin was huge.

Maybe Lionel's and Maerklin's efforts to bring model railroading to newest generations of parents and kids through such marketing will help ignite greater interest in this life-long hobby. While people are living longer, a hobby whose average age of participant are in their 50s has to be projected to have a relatively short life left.
Offline jonquinn  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2007 15:12:24(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
marklin used to be sold through the Horne's department stores - maybe they were just local to the pittsburgh area, but I was able to order trains (and they even had a small number on display) at one of their branch stores in the 1970's. Horne's has since gone out of business, their place taken by macys or someone like that.
I've been saying here that they can better promote themselves by showing off their complete system, with working signals, roundhouse, operating cranes, etc. amybe they need to go back to having a really comlete layout in some major department stores or toy store chains here in the USA (in the bigger cities). they would have to pay for the space, but its the best advertising fro bringing in new people/children to the hobby.
having these at train shows is good too, but the people who go to these are already buying trains - marklin needs to do a better job convincing people to try and buy their products (I've heard people say at the shows they would never buy marklin because of its "toy" train reputation, even 'though the new stuff looks nice). No one else makes/sells such a complete system.
but unfortunately, marklin in the USA seems to be stuck in a rut of black plexiglass loops.
Offline alonso231gery  
#3 Posted : 09 December 2007 16:26:09(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,959
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Hello Larry
Always looking forward to reading your posts which help me to improve my english.
I believe that people who play with trains will be less and less as time goes by.
I agree with what you have mentioned, but i would like also to say that the simple starter sets or the most simple (the one that has that small steam loco and that loop) should cost much much less.
A child that gets his first starter set and a brochure to dream, it is very likely when he/she gets older to continue this hobby.
So what i suggest is that this set to cost no more than 50 euros.
All videogame companies loose money when we buy their consoles, but they take their money back when we buy their software to play at their consoles wink.
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 09 December 2007 18:06:21(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,464
Location: Scotland
As long as the hobby keeps going while I do then I am quite happy.
As for the future very few of the present manufacturers will survive.
Marklin because it makes everything from locos to track and control has a better chance and I expect HAG will be OK as it only produces what it knows will sell and because of the higher quality. ESU would be OK if it improved the quality and reduced the price of its decoders but another firm may well appear on the scene and do just that.

Faller I would think would be OK but Kibri and others may well go.

If a new generation is to be interested then our trains will require to do much more and have cars on roads and planes overhead all controlled by a mini computer.
Driving a steamer while also driving a bus (not Faller) and landing a plane would give a bunch of kids some interest ... but discussing what type of couplers to use..forget it.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline ozzman  
#5 Posted : 10 December 2007 04:36:09(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
My concern is that model railways as a HOBBY is on the road to near extinction. Not because of price or quality issues, but simply because it does not offer instant gratification. Call me a pessimist if you will, but that's the way I see it....
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 10 December 2007 13:53:14(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,597
Location: Spain
Children will (re-)play what they see in real life;
If they see cars, they will find an old shoe-box, paint 2 circles on each side, and then it´s a car!
If they see trains, they will play with trains.

If they dont see trains, they wont play with trains. Even if somebody shows them photos, movies and models of trains, the interest will only be vague, as they need to relate to something REAL, to spurr their imagination and "pretend" plays.

Adult people will "play" differently. I think many of us are now realizing childhood dreams, and building those big layouts and collections that we dreamed of as young.
When the current youngsters grow up, THEY will begin to realize THEIR childhood dreams and desires.
Will these contain trains? -Doubtful. At the most a couple of high-speed bullettrains or local comuter trains. Even less people will have memories or interess in older steam-locos.

-but they might build an enourmous Faller Car System, with a smaller train as a side-kick ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 10 December 2007 14:40:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Henrik, I agree. Children play with toys they can relate to. This is why the most popular trains for kids will be Thomas and friends, Hogwarts express, and the Polar express (Marklin missed out on that one).

I think the future of model trains lies with the adult population. In the same way as enthusiasts will lovingly recreate the battle of Waterloo in miniature, even though they can't possibly have been around to see it, there will always be those to whom a model railway can be a fascinating hobby.

What this means is that model railway manufacturers, like Marklin, will need to get away from the mass childrens toy market and specialise more on adult customers, while leaving an "entry level" available for kids.

Of course, adults don't always have huge disposable incomes, so it is important to offer cheaper but well made models, as well as highly detailed expensive masterpieces.

To be honest, I think Marklin are more or less heading in the right direction now, though with a couple of mistakes along the way.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biotechee  
#8 Posted : 10 December 2007 14:52:54(UTC)
biotechee


Joined: 04/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Doylestown, PA
Well, over the weekend, I set up my circle under the Christmas tree. Simple analog circle around the perimeter of the tree skirt for my daughter to use when she wants. The track is occupied by the very simple Primex 2704 steel mill set. Got it in mint / near mint condition for less than $62.

Here's what I noticed in watching my daughter:

Because she could put "things" into the bins on the wagons, she was interested. She could also make the lok run and stop when she wanted. So she spent some time here and there putting little figurines into the bins of the wagons, starting the lok, and watching it run. She did this about 2-3 times during the day, without even asking me to help. But I did sit with her and play.

From this, it is abundantly clear that in order to keep children engaged (especially younger ones, my daughter is 6), the toy must be interactive and easy to use. I think this is the case, no doubt, for any toy. I would guess that most kids under the age of 10-12 could care less about "digital" operation of a train and the benefits of running all the fancy extras that digital has to offer. Kids want to play with it immediately and not worry about wires and addresses and such.

When I look at Marklin, the vast majority of their product is marketed towards older individuals (i.e. not younger children). I think by the time an individual would learn about Marklin, it may be too late to grab their interest. I believe if Marklin would more heavily market a new "Hobby" line that offers kids instant gratification for a very reasonable cost, they would do well in creating a life-long customer. One caveat of the "play" line would be maximum functionality without all the foo-foo digital stuff. A 6 year old kid's interest level disappears quickly when you have to tell her she can't play with the train yet because you need to set everything up and configure all kinds of things. I know Marklin's digital system is easy, but... Make it simple, make it something the kids can play with. Make it robust. I will probably buy some older metal loks for her to provide variety and to not worry if it falls on the floor.

Luckily for me, my grandfather introduced me to Marklin when I was very young. So it stuck in my head. I always knew that I wanted to have Marklin. Now that I am grown and financially capable, I buy Marklin when I want, and since I dig all the cool digital stuff I like the detail and functionality of the full digital line.

You need to make an impact when the kids are young. Doesn't get much simpler than that. They need to be able to play with the trains. Simple trains that allow for as much operation as possible are required. Simple sets that are relatively inexpensive when compared to the full digital line. Simple items that can be readily converted to full digital when the child grows.

The rest falls on our shoulders. Get our kids interested. Get them a cheap set and let them play. Play with them (this is the most important aspect no matter what!!!!). That new starter set is a great idea- but it needs to be marketed better to be successful. And don't mock the engine- it does what it is supposed to do- appeal to young children. It is not meant to be prototypical and it is not meant to make the hardcore Marklin guy rush out and buy one for his layout. It is meant to provide enjoyment for a kid. I think if I were in charge of Marklin, I would have expanded the set a little and included some additional "play" aspects to offer more enjoyment for the child.

I am not sure why the Hobby line from Marklin was not as successful as it could have been. I could easily guess having worked for German-based companies since 1998... But, something similar to the Hobby line is required. What adult in his/her right mind would want their 6-7 year old playing with a "delicate" 39562?! I sure wouldn't! That is precisely the reason why I bought the Primex 2704- it is robust and my kid can play with it. The wagons tip, you can load them, the lok has lights, etc. She turns the knob and the sucker goes about its business around the track. She stops it, tips the buckets and dumps the figurines. Then loads up more stuff in the buckets and makes the train go around again...

My goal is to start a simple layout that will allow my daughter the ability to operate some trains as well as satisfy my desires to run the really cool stuff.

The bottom line for me is Marklin doesn't know how to market to "potential" life-ling customers. And, given all of today's cool toys and gadgets, moms and dads (in general) don't have the desire to spend the time to operate trains with their kids. Members of this site notwithstanding. My daughter glows with happiness when I play with her with anything- she doesn't care if it is electronic, a simple board game, cards, or the train under the tree. As long as I am given her attention, she likes the toy! And that's how model RR needs to survive. Simple. Interactive. Shared.

Offline TTRExpress  
#9 Posted : 10 December 2007 17:19:17(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
The Future of Model Railroading.

Interesting topic for discussion. Growing up and being around trains helps spur an interest. Spending time with children to motivate their interest is extremely important. Maybe our model train dealers, hobby stores and train shows should consider starting seminars on train operation, model building etc? Maybe we as enthusiasts should do more to promote the hobby?

I never see commercials on TV for Model Trains!!! Maerklin/TRIX where are you??

The major model manufacturers need to produce an inexpensive line of locomotives and rolling stock to introduce the hobby. However, with two parents working, busy school schedules, sporting events, band concerts, plays it is getting more difficult to find the time to just relax and play. It is so easy to tell the kids to turn on the TV, play video games, turn on the PC, even now have their own cell-phones!!

I am sure most of us on this forum grew up in the 1950's or a little later. I still remember black and white TV, rotary dial phones and the wonderful smell of steam trains at Glasgow Central Station.

Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season filled with more trains.

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin)

Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline hmsfix  
#10 Posted : 10 December 2007 17:48:19(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi,

Yep, future perspectives are uncertain. Today, most mrr enthusiasts are "older" guys ) i.e. aged 30-95. This is easily seen on any mrr show or fair. So one may ask how the younger could be motivated for the hobby, as they have not seen, heared, and smelled all those great prototypical steamers when they were still in service 30 or 40 years ago. IMHO more attractive than today's stream lined, uniformly looking ICEs and TGVs. I can't give a final answer here, but I agree that more mrr advertisement + cheaper starter sets could be the right way.

IMHO a small mrr related group (and business) remain in the future, but there is certainly a deep valley to be passed.

Look at other technically related hobbies: electronic tinkering, radio amateurs, high fidelity audio enthusiasts. Not very common negociations today, but there are still small, very active communities working on a high and attractive level, and maybe the few manufacturers who sell here have a good business. Can't tell any numbers.

Regards

Hans Martin
Offline dntower85  
#11 Posted : 10 December 2007 22:16:17(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I fear after talking to my dealer that the high rate of failure's of this years Lionel's polar express and hogwarts sets may be a big set back.

I feel (this is me thinking way outside the box) a way to get a younger group to the rail road hobby is to combine the technologies that are available today together. To provide more of the instant gratification that kids have become a custom too.

I'm seeing a lot of parents shelling out money for a guitar shaped x-box controller and game this season. In the end these kids will only have a peace of junk to sell at a garage sell.

First design a video game that would be interactive with a starter set. for instance an interactive Thomas the tank game were as apart of the adventure the child has to drive Thomas around the lay out in order to get to the next section of the game. or a sim-city stile game that could start with track layout and how well can you manage a rail road.
The starter set should have to have some sort of striped down central station. Whether it runs from a X-Box, PS3, wii or home computer or all would be better with the ability to digitally control at least one or two turnouts an operate at least two loks . now here is where money could be for the company that develops the system. as the game is played things could be unlocked like track, now its off to the hobby shop to by more track, rolling stock and then eventually more loks. the game could include layout building tips and such when higher levels are reached.
the game could lead to further to simple robotics, so it would be a start on something more educational than air guitar or shooting zombies. maybe that would make parents buy it for there child over other games.

Again this is just an ideal with many problems and who knows if something like this could ever turn a profit. it probably wouldn't but it would bring more people back to the hobby and that might.

regards
Darrin

DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline biotechee  
#12 Posted : 10 December 2007 22:46:40(UTC)
biotechee


Joined: 04/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Doylestown, PA
Darrin,

Do you, by any chance, work for Lego?!!! biggrin

Just take a look at what Lego has done regarding tying in their toys with the computer age. The Lego software titles are extremely popular and critically acclaimed. I think if it were done the right way, tying a starter set or something similar to a PC/PS3/Wii/Xbox game would be an excellent marketing idea.

I also like your idea of "unlocking" codes during game play which could be used in various ways (credit for new track / wagons / etc. or further access to "special" areas of the program). Or, having codes supplied with new stock, like you said. Webkinz, if you are familiar, uses codes and such to keep kids (and adults!) enthralled with simple, tiny stuffed animals! STUFFED ANIMALS! Granted, a stuffed animal at $12-14 costs a lot less than a DHG500 or even a coal car, but I get the picture...

Too bad I don't have the expendable cash around to start my own company...
Offline dntower85  
#13 Posted : 10 December 2007 23:09:39(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I don't work for Lego but I do like there concept and think it should be adopted.
And I feel that control of simple robotics and other simple house hold items is the last thing that has not been fulfilled in ordinary computing. Sure we can connect a printer to our computer, but how about connecting up a lawn more to it and tell it how to mow your lawn. Even if it exist the user would have to have some knowledge of automation and control for it to work successfully. A train layout of this kind could be a step in that direction.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Hoffmann  
#14 Posted : 11 December 2007 00:16:55(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Well here is a feedback from an old guy and a Dealerbiggrinbiggrin

Marklin ( as well as all other Model-Rairoad Mfg. ) are cought between a rock and you know what.
On the one hand we want the Kids to get involved and on the other we want evermore realistic HO Locomotives and Cars (just look at the thread's in this Forum).
I am on the Side of John, Marklin will never be able to compete with some of the Model Railroad carbage which is out there. Reason being Marklin Track is way more expensive then all the rest. Which means of course that Parents who would like to buy their Kids a cheap set will most likely buy it at Wal-Mart or the Super market and wind up with a piece of Junk never to be played with again.
Long gone are the Days when Macy's or Kimbells sold good Trainsets.

Also keep in mind when most of us where young there where still real Trains running at a regular basis and you could see these in real Life or ride on them.
Most Kids today have never been on a real Train.

I have a Marklin Layout in my Store Window which can be activated with a Pushbutton from the outside. That Train runs between 10-30 times a day when Kids go by with there Parents however very few come into the Store and ask about the Trainset ( it is a novelty to them but no more ).
If Marklin would have sold as many Startset as Sid Meier sold the game "Railroad Tycoon" Marklin would be in good shape [V]

To make a long story short--Model Railroading is in decline-- end of Story.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline plavnostruev  
#15 Posted : 11 December 2007 03:39:02(UTC)
plavnostruev

United States   
Joined: 18/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 756
Location: New Jersey, USA
What's needed is a lot more of this:


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

That $99 starter set is a baby step in the right direction, pun indented.

Mike
Offline shaygetz  
#16 Posted : 11 December 2007 03:54:13(UTC)
shaygetz


Joined: 19/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 348
Location: , Florida
One of the things I do is ensure that at least part of my layout is relatively kid friendly. Kids hear too much, "Please don't touch..." around your average layout, a definite interest killer. Tyco operating accessories are available for very few dollars and can add loads of fun for visiting tikes. Buy an old beater and a couple cars and let the kids have at it.

Another thing I do is run Thomas and friends both on my layout and when I am with the club at train shows. I will never forget the precious squeal of delight that came from a little girl who saw Thomas from across the room. She nearly went to Nirvana when Thomas' eyes turned towards her at just the right time, adding to her delight that, yes, Thomas was real, he just looked at her. What memories that little one will have the next time model trains come up.

I personally don't think those electronic geegaws would hold the sway they do if parents (and uncles, grampaws and daddies) didn't see them for the convenient baby sitters that they've become.
"To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

---A.W. Tozer

Webpage... www.freewebs.com/shaygetz
Blog... http://misterbobsmodelworksemporium.blogspot.com/
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