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Offline BlindingHeadache  
#1 Posted : 16 October 2007 17:46:47(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Hello folks,

First a quick introduction as I am new in these parts. I have recently become the owner of a marklin digital set (new) with c track and Mobile Station. I have C1 + C3+ C5 tracks, various carriages, the BR86 steam loco (with the starter set) and the v200 diesel with mfx (memories from my childhood brought back to life with this impressive engine). The v200 I bought seperately, new, from a dealer on ebay - where I am ebay is a very practical way to buy these items, marklin dealers are few and far.

The whole lot has been enormous fun and I will enjoy growing and building this set into the future with my 4yr old son and 7 yr old daughter - both of whome love this set also.

Everything had been running very well, until two weeks ago. The V200, which had until then been super smooth, became jerky as it travelled around the track - rapid acceleration and deceleration. The behaviour repeats itself very consistently as the engine pases around certain parts of the track, always at the same locations. I tried making the simplest track possible and found the same behaviour repeated.

I opened the engine, removing the diecast top section, and found a loose brown wire, which had been soldered to a tab on one bogey. I did not repair this. I ran the engine without the top section and found it behaved normally. Put the cover on, and it reverted to its weird behaviour. I did this several times with the same result. I also noticed that one light was out at the end with the loose wire. I repaired the loose wire by resoldering it to the tab, and the light became functional again. I had hoped that this might also resolve the real problem, however when I returned the cover to the engine it was the same old story.

Does anyone have any clues as to what may be going on?

I have researched the forum and have noted that there is some history of voltage related problems with mfx and c-sine motors, and also some issues with the mobile station, but I have not noted anything that addresses what I have seen.

Thanks in advance for any help Smile

Pat

Offline rschaffr  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2007 17:52:05(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Pat: Welcome. this is the place to get answers.

What about the BR86? Any problems with that?

If your lok exhibits this behavior at the same place on the track, that usually means dirty track or poor conductivity in that section for other reasons.

Did you try cleaning the track (easiest first step)

BTW, interesting screen name...anything to do with your train problem?
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2007 18:16:28(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Thanks Ron,

Track has only seen around 30 hours of use from new, so I have not thought to clean it. How would this be best done, and what should be the intervals between cleaning?

The BR86 runs well, if noisy. The kids don't mind though.

Username is a small reminder to myself to stay away from London pubs and their tepid ales.[V]

Pat
Offline rschaffr  
#4 Posted : 16 October 2007 18:21:52(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
It is always a good idea to clean new track, anyway. For particularly dirty track, I do a two step process...first a commercial product called "GooGone" which is a citrus based cleaning fluid, then I take the residue from that off with cigarette lighter fluid. For ongoing maintenance, I just use the lighter fluid.

Ah yes...the morning after. You know, I hadn't really thought about it, but I had five liters of beer each of the first two days of Oktpberfest a few weeks ago and never had a hangover. Wonder why?
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 16 October 2007 18:34:21(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Welcome to the forum, Pat.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline MärCo  
#6 Posted : 16 October 2007 18:48:14(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
Somehow, it looks like the bonnet cramped one of the wires. Since it runs well without bonnet, but poor with.
My quess, one of the wires get stucked between the bonnet and the chassis and is party broken. Not unknown to me, since this happens sometimes with the Nohab's too.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline rschaffr  
#7 Posted : 16 October 2007 19:01:55(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Yeah. I fried the decoder on my 3763 BLS Re465 last week that way. [:(]. Put in a new LokPilot and it runs better than ever!
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Mafi  
#8 Posted : 16 October 2007 22:43:14(UTC)
Mafi


Joined: 29/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: NRW, Germany
Hi Pat,

welcome aboard here!

I had a similiar problem with a V200 with self-implemented LokSound decoder:
shortcircuit between metal hull and decoder/speaker/blank wires.
If all is running well without the hull, then make a test if it helps to temporarily isolate the electrical area from the hull. Perhaps a wire is blank or the speaker or the decoder has contact to it; like MärCo already suggested.

Good luck
Mafi
Don't be too proud of the new high tech terror you just have invented! (Darth Vader, Episode IV)
Offline nevw  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2007 01:35:18(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Welcome to the Forum Pat,
Where abouts are you located?

Adrian THe Stats are Looking Good This year for OZland.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Caplin  
#10 Posted : 17 October 2007 02:11:31(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />....
Ah yes...the morning after. You know, I hadn't really thought about it, but I had five liters of beer each of the first two days of Oktpberfest a few weeks ago and never had a hangover. Wonder why?

Thin beer, perhaps biggrin
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline rschaffr  
#11 Posted : 17 October 2007 04:55:57(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
In Munich???? Thin beer???? You utter sacrilege!
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#12 Posted : 17 October 2007 06:45:52(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
The German Purity Law for Beer takes care of any headaches. I can drink many liters of almost any German beer or Czech Pils without a headache. Mmmmmmmaaaarrrghhh. . .

What comes out of the pipes in the UK though is another matter, and beer should in any case not be drunk in pint glasses imho. Nothing worse than a warm lager.

Some king of contact between the PCB/wiring and the case is what I also figured, but I have not yet been able to isolate this exacly, however your replies give me the confidence that I am dealing with this kind of issue rather than a motor or decoder problem. I will continue to hunt and let you all know the outcome.

Nev, I'm in Brisneyland - for the time being.

Pat
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#13 Posted : 17 October 2007 11:02:47(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Ok. I have some more detail on this. I tried running it again this afternoon with the cover off. This time the lok showed the same symptoms as with the cover on. The engine ran in a stutter and then stalled, with the motor very hot after only a brief operation (20 - 30 seconds or so). This to me might indicate a short circuit of some kind.

I noted earlier that there was a loose brown wire, I assumed that it had broken free from a solder spot on a tab on the bogey holding the electric motor. At the other end of the lok a brown wire was soldered in place on a similar tab on the chassis. I soldered the loose brown wire to the tab at the motor bogey.

Can someone confirm that this is the correct or incorrect connection? i.e. where should this brown wire be connected? By the way the lok is model 39802.

Any other clues to help resolve this would be helpful - thanks.

Pat
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 17 October 2007 12:20:46(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Hi Pat, Welcome to the forum. You'll find that Nev is a Brisneylander as well. Can you post some pictures of the insides of your loco? That may help everyone to identify what could be causing your issue, or at least work out where your brown wire should go.
Offline Hemmerich  
#15 Posted : 17 October 2007 13:22:59(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by BlindingHeadache
I noted earlier that there was a loose brown wire, I assumed that it had broken free from a solder spot on a tab on the bogey holding the electric motor. At the other end of the lok a brown wire was soldered in place on a similar tab on the chassis. I soldered the loose brown wire to the tab at the motor bogey.

Can someone confirm that this is the correct or incorrect connection? i.e. where should this brown wire be connected? By the way the lok is model 39802.

Any other clues to help resolve this would be helpful - thanks.

Pat

Hi Pat,

that's correct. both brown (i.e. ground) wires need to be soldered at their brass solder rings. Not doing so causes such behaviours as you described.

UserPostedImage
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#16 Posted : 17 October 2007 14:22:41(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Schönen Dank, Lutz!

That is exactly my setup. I will clean up the solder at the solder ring and try again. I hope that I have not damaged the motor or the controller in the mean time!!

Pat
Offline rschaffr  
#17 Posted : 17 October 2007 17:06:17(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Pat:

Sounds like the problem. Lutz to the rescue again! Lutz: Is there any Marklin model you DON'T have?

At any rate, Pat, if you have not already done so, I would recommend that you give your track a good cleaning anyway for good trouble free operation.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#18 Posted : 18 October 2007 02:04:03(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Ok. I have resoldered that contact and it now looks as though it could have come straight from the Märklin factory! Back on the track, and things have improved. I ran the engine again for about 30s. At high speed, very smooth & not too noisy. At low speed however it is still jerky.

Looking more closely at low speed: The motor is very whiny, and it is getting very hot - too hot to touch. I am now thinking that these may be symptoms of friction in the motor. Perhaps the lubricant had burned off previously as the engine ran hot? I am therefore now thinking of lubricating the engine a little and trying again.

Does anyone have any recommendations to make regards lubricants? Should I consider dismantling the motor and cleaning the work drive prior?

Thanks again for all of your comments and advice.

Pat
Offline nevw  
#19 Posted : 18 October 2007 07:41:40(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Pat, Dismantle, Clean Thoroughally, Lightly, Lightly, oil.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Mafi  
#20 Posted : 18 October 2007 15:13:20(UTC)
Mafi


Joined: 29/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: NRW, Germany
Hi Pat,

C-Sinus motor should be maintainance-free. So a question to LUTZ: can anyone recommend to open a C-Sinus??? I dont think so. Perhaps you need the oiling on other moving parts (wheels, gear ...)

Thanks for any reply
Mafi
Don't be too proud of the new high tech terror you just have invented! (Darth Vader, Episode IV)
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#21 Posted : 18 October 2007 17:57:02(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Well, today I tried lubricating with some Trix oil. This did not help. I did notice when running the lok by hand on the track (without the cover) that the engine would move smoothly and freely and then occasionally become very stiff, with the tyres sliding on the track (i.e. wheels not rotating). I am new to this caper, but I'm pretty sure that that's not right.

So, I removed the motor/bogey cover and slid the motor complete with worm drive out of the bogey. The brass worm/flywheel rotates easily inside the motor - so I'm pretty sure that this bit is ok. Looking at the gears they seemed to move generally smoothly, but occasionally bind a little - this seems to be much worse when it is completely reassembled (i.e. with worm in place). Later I found a small sliver of steel in the worm - I assume that this must have come from one of the gears. I removed this and tried again. Although this improved things, the motor was still getting extremely hot (how hot should this motor get?) and after a while the behaviour returned.

Next step will be to pull apart the bogey and thoroughly inspect clean the gears here - I assume that this is possible.

Pat
Offline David Dewar  
#22 Posted : 18 October 2007 19:42:15(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Hi Pat. Are you sure the loco was new when purchased. If from a dealer I would send it back and get it exchanged. If bought on ebay as a private sale then this may not of course be possible.
The work you have done so far on the loco should not be required for a new item and should in any event have it working.
Motors should not run so hot as being difficult to touch.
If you have a Marklin warranty card with the loco which should be there if it is new than you can send it back to Marklin directly for exchange or repair.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Hemmerich  
#23 Posted : 19 October 2007 03:04:28(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Mafi
<br />Hi Pat,

C-Sinus motor should be maintainance-free. So a question to LUTZ: can anyone recommend to open a C-Sinus??? I dont think so. Perhaps you need the oiling on other moving parts (wheels, gear ...)


Hi Mafi,

the/any C-Sine should indeed NEVER be opened and it is maintenance free. However, the gears, etc. need regular maintenance - which are usually described in the instruction booklets supplied with each model. Märklin recommends to use the TRIX gear grease for those new models with compact C-Sine.

IMHO that's not the issue with this model; the motor (actually the shield cover) should never get that hot as it was mentioned here. Needless to say, if there are metal pieces inside the/any gear the loco can and will not drive properly.

As already suggested - warranty claim (the model was only released about a year ago).
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#24 Posted : 19 October 2007 08:25:20(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Hi David,

I did purchase the Lok via ebay. It was purchased new, and there is a warranty card. However the warranty card is not stamped or completed by the seller (a dealer), nor did I receive a seperate invoice. I expect that the absence of these will prevent me from making a warranty claim.

Pat
Offline nevw  
#25 Posted : 19 October 2007 08:58:33(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Pat,
Some Ebay Marklin Sellers are in fact Marklin dealers. Send the seller an Email.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#26 Posted : 20 October 2007 17:33:36(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Hi all,

I had contacted the seller earlier, and he came back to me today. He apologised for the problem and asked me to return it to him - he would have it repaired or replaced. I am relieved. btw, for the record he is in Germany - Station500, Matthias - if anyone is interested.

Thankyou all for your help - I think we tried all there is to try and its time to send it back as already suggested.

Regards

Pat
Offline rschaffr  
#27 Posted : 20 October 2007 18:05:04(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
I have bought from him. Never had a problem.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline BlindingHeadache  
#28 Posted : 19 February 2008 04:50:46(UTC)
BlindingHeadache


Joined: 16/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: ,
Hi All,

I thought I would just close the loop on this one. The lok was returned to Germany late in October to the ebay seller, Station500 (Matthias). Marklin was slow to respond, which was probably to do with the Christmas period. The lok was not repaired, but I am very pleased to say that today I have received a brand new replacement from Station500.Cool

Thankyou to you all for your help, and thankyou to Station500 for his support.[^]

Patrick
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#29 Posted : 19 February 2008 07:37:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
That's good news Pat. And another satisfied customer of Station500. I brought my BR44 from Matthias, I too got good service with no problems.
Offline fvri  
#30 Posted : 19 February 2008 15:38:26(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi,

Mine 39802 is not running well with ECoS control, for high speeds it doesn't run well/smoothly, controlled by the M CS all works fine!

Regards,
Frank
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