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Offline Mikael  
#1 Posted : 07 October 2007 13:29:42(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
If you remember, I previously made my own control board for my layout (or half of it anyway). Have a look here if you need to refresh your memory:
https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=6617

This board still works perfectly, but it was quite a bit of work to build it. So as the time has come where I would like another control board for the rest of my layout, I had the choice to make one the same way, or I could have a look at some of the commercial offerings now available. And as I am an Intellibox and Loconet user, the Uhlenbrock Track-Control is a perfect match.
Earlier this week, I brought home such a starter set and various extensions for it.

The very first thing I noticed was that the manual is in german. Darn it. Well, I do read german, but not with the same ease I would with an english manual. However, a closer look at Uhlenbrocks homepage reveal an english version.
http://www.uhlenbrock.de/3/9/1/...17-040.apd/Bes69000e.pdf

The set is a box full of plastic segments, electronics and several sheets of stickers.

UserPostedImage

The concept is that you build your own board segments to suit your needs. You slap a sticker on top of a segment, and, if needed, put the appropriate electronic board inside it. The stickers shall be placed with some care, or the result won't be pretty.

UserPostedImage

After you're done (several evenings later), it is time to assemble the segments. This is quick and easy. All of this is very well covered in the manual, which includes a lot of pictures. So I'll just skip forward to the end result:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I am still missing the electronics for 5 signal segments, but I have already emptied the stock at my local dealer.

That was the hardware. Now the board needs to be programmed. This can be done very easily, by just assigning an address for each signal and turnout, but the system is capable of so much more. This is all described in a technical manual, which does NOT come with the set on paper. However it can be downloaded at the website:
http://www.uhlenbrock.de/3/6/I5...2-011.apd/TechBeschr.pdf
Unfortunately, this one is available in german only.

Furthermore, in the set is a CD. In addition to the manuals and a video, it also has a piece of software, TC-Edit (again only in german). With this you can plan and fully configure your control board, including track feedback sensors/indicators, program sequences etc. Once configured, just connect the PC to your Intellibox, and the control board gets programmed. Very impressive.
Unfortunately, I am not there yet, as the program has its flaws. I configured my board on another PC, and when I got home with the saved file from the program, the program was unable to use it. I ended up with half my board on the screen, and the configuration was gone. Now I have to start all over. Saving and loading does work fine, as long as you stick to one computer.

This is my experience so far. I'll bring some updates as soon as I have something more to tell.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 07 October 2007 15:03:40(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,769
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello Mikael,

While I have not progressed further than 2 of Mobile Station, your topic was very intersting, and the explanations perfectly clear.

Very useful for something in the future for me.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#3 Posted : 07 October 2007 15:12:34(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Yes,
thank's a lot for sharing.
/Lars
Offline Timaximus  
#4 Posted : 07 October 2007 15:24:59(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Looks very good Mikael,

I am also thinking about using this digital signal board since it is available form Uhlenbrock.
On the other hand building a switch board with the known Switch-Control is fun to, but a lot of work.
Both will be used with the LISSY sensors inside the track.

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
Offline huttel  
#5 Posted : 07 October 2007 18:54:46(UTC)
huttel

Denmark   
Joined: 11/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 274
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Looks great Mikael (and expensive) Smile

//Thomas
Carpe Diem!
Märklin HO | Insider | C-Track | Digital | Primarilly DK & D | Era III+IV | PC Control with CS2 (60215), Intellibox & Win-Digipet | http://huttel.dk/marklin
Offline Mikael  
#6 Posted : 07 October 2007 19:07:05(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I used Switch-Control in my first board, but it does have its limits. Most notably you can only make routes with a combination of 10 buttons (within the same module). Defining routes using two buttons from different modules is not possible. I have exceeded that limit, and wanted to find something better.
The Track-Control does NOT have this limit, and is capable of so much more. Liek multi-colour track occupancy indicators. They can be yellow when a route has been called up, and changes to red when the train actually enters the section. And turnouts can block manual control if a route is active through it.
I'd guess Lissy will integrate very well with this system.

And yes, it does cost quite a bit if you have just a medium-sized layout. For this board, I have used approximately the equivalent of one starter pack (Uhlenbrock number 69000) and two extension kits (69010). And this is just for half of my layout.
Offline huttel  
#7 Posted : 07 October 2007 19:34:03(UTC)
huttel

Denmark   
Joined: 11/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 274
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi Mikael

I am perfectly happy with my PC WDP control of the layout. Have you as an alternative considered a second touch-screen monitor?

//Thomas
Carpe Diem!
Märklin HO | Insider | C-Track | Digital | Primarilly DK & D | Era III+IV | PC Control with CS2 (60215), Intellibox & Win-Digipet | http://huttel.dk/marklin
Offline mz_1414  
#8 Posted : 07 October 2007 19:39:07(UTC)
mz_1414


Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 413
Location: ,
Looks like a lot of fun, just as LEGO biggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 07 October 2007 19:53:11(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,705
Location: United Kingdom
Very good, Mikael.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Rowan  
#10 Posted : 07 October 2007 21:53:07(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Looks good!

Thanks Mikael.

Smile
Offline Guus  
#11 Posted : 07 October 2007 22:33:28(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Mikael,

Very nice!It's the kind of interface I like,it reminds me of the HEKI Gleisbild system,although I realise that one is based on another operating principle.

http://www.heki-kittler.de/heki...n/produkte/produkte.html

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Mikael  
#12 Posted : 07 October 2007 23:47:57(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Mikael
<br />I configured my board on another PC, and when I got home with the saved file from the program, the program was unable to use it. Saving and loading does work fine, as long as you stick to one computer

I have an update on this issue. It doesn't look like it is the moving of the file, but rather that my home PC is running Windows Vista. Saving a file on my Vista machine and loading it later, causes the configuration to be lost. Using my Win XP based laptop, everything works fine.
This might be a file permission issue in Vista. I'll test some more tomorrow.
Offline Mikael  
#13 Posted : 08 October 2007 22:30:19(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Another update. Windows Vista has now been cleared of all charges. It would seem that I brought home a .plt file, but not the associated .lcv files. And then I used that .plt file to build further on a board. This resulted in corrupt files where all changes were lost.
Today I got a fresh copy of the original .plt and .lcv files, and I have no more problems anywhere, Vista or XP.

A bit strange for such a new program, is that it only supports com1 and com2 for communicating with my Intellibox. Fortunately I was able to reconfigure my USB-RS232 converter from com7 to com1, and the programming of my control board completed without problems.
Offline clapcott  
#14 Posted : 09 October 2007 23:38:36(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by huttel
..... Have you as an alternative considered a second touch-screen monitor?

//Thomas


Without a doubt the PC/touch-screen is my preference with everything but tactile feedback, which a PC can augment using sound (A major gribe I have with the CS). I detest the use of an interim device - mouse, magic pen etc..

The Track control is an excellent product for its tactile interface and universal loconet integration. "firm" configuration with peer to peer listeners offers both effecient function and versatility.

Like most "prototype diligent" control boards the east-west schmatic restriction of fuctional modules is an issue for those modellers who want a single ergonomic view of their whole layout (e.g. no north-south modules for points,signals,occupancy etc)

Bluntly for us it will be both. Architecting so that the track control and a touchscreen/pc, with loconet interface, can work together means that the appropriate choice can be made for the each location. Great for a large modular exhibition layout with multiple operation points.

Peter
Offline Mikael  
#15 Posted : 10 October 2007 00:19:47(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by huttel
<br />Have you as an alternative considered a second touch-screen monitor?

Whoops. It would seem that I have overlooked your question.
No, I haven't directly considered a touch-screen, but earlier I have had thoughts about controlling my layout with a PC, and ended up deciding against it. And that pretty much rules out touch-screens.

I don't think I'd like the "feel" of controlling a layout with a glass plate either.
Offline Mikael  
#16 Posted : 10 October 2007 11:04:22(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I am afraid that I have to go back to my first advice: Stick to one PC only. While I can transport the configuration from PC to PC without it becoming corrupted, there is another problem which has haunted me the last two days. But finally I found the cause.

If you make changes to an existing plan, and then move the files to another PC in order to program the board, things won't go as you would expect. TC-Edit apparently keeps track of which registers in each module needs updating, but this information is NOT saved in the files. So when you take the other PC and program the board, some of your changes won't be programmed, even if they look fine in TC-Edit. This problem has really had me running around in circles.
So edit the plan on the SAME PC as you program from. Or make a complete re-initialisation of the board every time, but that takes much longer than just programming it.

Now I just need to find a bug in my homemade route controller, and then I should be ready to record a video of my control board in action.
Offline Mikael  
#17 Posted : 10 October 2007 22:33:54(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Finally some success. I have just finished programming everything, and now it all seem to work Cool I still have some feedback wires to install, so I can't really give it an extensive test yet, but it looks cool.

UserPostedImage
Offline hxmiesa  
#18 Posted : 10 October 2007 23:41:17(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,600
Location: Spain
It looks good, and agian you have shown that you are an ace technician! -but... I am MUCH more impressed with your homemade control panel. -Even if you say that this one can do more things.
Excellent description process.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline rschaffr  
#19 Posted : 10 October 2007 23:53:53(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,193
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Mikael: Very impressive. is that system very expensive? I have a homemade control board for my switch yard that I operate manually that I am not really happy with. Might consider converting it.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline plavnostruev  
#20 Posted : 11 October 2007 00:20:31(UTC)
plavnostruev

United States   
Joined: 18/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 756
Location: New Jersey, USA
Mikael,

Thank you for sharing, looks very promising indeed.
Viessmann is planning to unveil very similar control board,
the one integrated with their upcoming Commander.
In fact, Commander will feature similar functionality in itself,
I believe. It will be interesting to compare notes once (if ever) they
are ready to ship.

Mike
Offline Mikael  
#21 Posted : 11 October 2007 01:50:00(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />is that system very expensive? I have a homemade control board for my switch yard that I operate manually that I am not really happy with. Might consider converting it.

Expensive? That depends on the needed size. I don't know the prices around the world, but search for Uhlenbrock 69000 or 69010 at the pricelists from your local shops. The size board you see above, is roughly equivalent to one 69000 and two 69010 sets.
Offline biotechee  
#22 Posted : 11 October 2007 17:38:58(UTC)
biotechee


Joined: 04/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Doylestown, PA
I did a quick check on Ebay Germany and there is one Uhlenbrock 69000 for around 160Euro. No 69010's listed that I could find.

Looks like a pretty cool system, although I would prefer "hidden" mounting tabs instead of being able to see the tabs sticking out from the sides. Just a minor gripe- nothing major.
Offline Mikael  
#23 Posted : 11 October 2007 21:11:46(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The price of the 69010 should be just about the same.

It is perfectly possible to mount everything out-of-sight, especially if you have the right screws without a big head (unlike mine). I am going to mount my board in a better way, which I haven't quite thought out yet. The current solution is only temporary to keep it from falling apart while I experiment with it.
Offline Mikael  
#24 Posted : 28 October 2007 14:20:24(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
And here, though a little late, a video of the board in action. The video demonstrates the use of start/end keys to set routes, as well as conflicting routes are postponed until the first train has safely gone out of the way.
http://www.ejberg.dk/external/theme/trackcontrol/tc.wmv
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#25 Posted : 28 October 2007 16:24:57(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Thanks again. Very impressive IMHO.

I don't fully understand the track occupancy handling. Do you have occupacncy detectors, or are those indications set as parts of routes? Or something in between; a few detectors, but mostly programmed?

/Lars
Offline Mikael  
#26 Posted : 28 October 2007 17:04:56(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I don't fully understand the track occupancy handling. Do you have occupacncy detectors, or are those indications set as parts of routes?

They are both. I admit it is a bit hard to see on the movie, but track occupancy indicators light up in yellow as soon as a route is activated, and the track is reserved. Later they turn red when the train actually enters the track section.

For turnouts it's a bit different. They are always lighted, as they need to indicate the position at all times. They turn red when in use by a route, and at the same time manual control is blocked (built-in feature in the modules).
Offline clapcott  
#27 Posted : 28 October 2007 20:30:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Mikael,
I have a similar question to Lars,
Your loop from the top left (2-1 RH point) to the top left (10-2 LH point) shows "occupied" (red) at the actual points but "unocupied/route set" (yellow)in the loop.

2 questions.
1) have you left the the middle indicator (1-4 to 1-8) out of the ocupancy configuration or do they have their own ocupancy sesors?
2) If the (2-1) point changes to branch can you have it indicate yellow/red based on a "different" ocupancy sensor? (base program seems to only allow a reference to 1 sensor :-( )
Peter
Offline ulf999  
#28 Posted : 28 October 2007 21:53:00(UTC)
ulf999


Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,908
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for the report Mikael!
Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
Offline Mikael  
#29 Posted : 28 October 2007 22:40:16(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott
<br />Mikael,
I have a similar question to Lars,
Your loop from the top left (2-1 RH point) to the top left (10-2 LH point) shows "occupied" (red) at the actual points but "unocupied/route set" (yellow)in the loop.

First, I am assuming that you are referring to the picture higher up in the discussion, and not the video, right?

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:1) have you left the the middle indicator (1-4 to 1-8) out of the ocupancy configuration or do they have their own ocupancy sesors?

1-4, 1-5, 1-7 and 1-8 indeed have their own occupancy detectors.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:2) If the (2-1) point changes to branch can you have it indicate yellow/red based on a "different" ocupancy sensor? (base program seems to only allow a reference to 1 sensor :-( )

No, that is not possible. But the actual points doesn't have occupancy detectors on my layout. Instead when I call up a route, "fake" occupied messages for the points involved are sent. This locks the points so they can't be operated manually anymore. This, unfortunately, has the side effect that points are red when reserved, while normal track pieces are yellow.
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