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Question 4228 Rheingold Table Lights erratic
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Offline nevw  
#1 Posted : 27 August 2007 08:42:27(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
I have a Used 4228 Rheingold Set. Looks Magnificent but there is a Problem with the Return path of Electricity to the Rails.

The Lights are not flickering but going on and Off. I did have it running Ok for a Short time (15 Minutes) after I cleaned the trucks with Contact Clean. New Wheels have been fitted as I thought that the original wheels were a bit corroded.

I think htat the Bearing Holes in the Metal Plates in the Bogies are worn giving interupted/poor Contact.
I had the bright Idea of fitting the Copper Earth Plates but the wheel sets are too far apart.

1. Where can I find an Exploded Parts list for the Carriages as I may try to buy new Trucks for the Carriages.

2. How do the Cars come apart. I have had the roof off but want to get the interior out to check under the under Floor wiring.

Thanks,
Nev

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Larry  
#2 Posted : 27 August 2007 08:47:13(UTC)
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Larry

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Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to your problem, Nevw. Marklinists far better than me will help you but I'd sure like to stop the flickering. Anyone have thoughts on that? I understand the flickering may be coming from the wheel contact.
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Offline nevw  
#3 Posted : 27 August 2007 09:34:00(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to your problem, Nevw. Marklinists far better than me will help you but I'd sure like to stop the flickering. Anyone have thoughts on that? I understand the flickering may be coming from the wheel contact.

WOrse than a Current flicker. Definately Wheel Contact. I have replace the Marklin Bar type CC Couplings with RTS. But problem in hte return path via wheels.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#4 Posted : 27 August 2007 09:35:14(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to your problem, Nevw. Marklinists far better than me will help you but I'd sure like to stop the flickering. Anyone have thoughts on that? I understand the flickering may be coming from the wheel contact.

WOrse than a Current flicker. Definately Wheel Contact. I have replace the Marklin Bar type CC Couplings with RTS. But problem in hte return path via wheels.


When I can figure out how to get the cars apart I may Run 2 pole CC Conductors and run the power from the Loco Pickup.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline DasBert33  
#5 Posted : 27 August 2007 12:19:51(UTC)
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DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,245
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
WOrse than a Current flicker. Definately Wheel Contact. I have replace the Marklin Bar type CC Couplings with RTS. But problem in hte return path via wheels.


Hi,

I have the same setup, RTS couplers, and hardly an problems with flickering. A lot of my tracks are contact track and even there little to no problems. I have all C-tracks, I can imagine M tracks could be more problematic.

Bert
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Offline nevw  
#6 Posted : 27 August 2007 12:30:32(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
WOrse than a Current flicker. Definately Wheel Contact. I have replace the Marklin Bar type CC Couplings with RTS. But problem in hte return path via wheels.


Hi,

I have the same setup, RTS couplers, and hardly an problems with flickering. A lot of my tracks are contact track and even there little to no problems. I have all C-tracks, I can imagine M tracks could be more problematic.

Bert




Bert ,
I am sure that the problem is with the Wheel contact in the Bogies. I have cleaned them up but will try a very fine polishing needle. ALL C TRack.
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Larry  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2007 02:48:41(UTC)
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Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Thanks. Hmmm...well I guess I'll install RTS couplers and conduct a flicker test: flicker, no flicker or some flicker.

Or, maybe there is naturally less flickering in the northern hemisphere. Just a theory, Nevw. Good luck with your problem. LOL
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Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2007 10:37:34(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Larry, Not just a Flicker but definately Power, no power. Lights on Lights OFF.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2007 10:39:08(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
BUT How to take the Cars apart?? and does nay one know the Part number of the Bogies??
OR wherer I can get an Exploded View of the Cars along with a Parts List.

Lutz Help Help I am lost.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Larry  
#10 Posted : 29 August 2007 08:52:07(UTC)
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Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Nevw...This won't help but I had a few of these beautiful coaches crash to the floor (which happens to be ceramic one I put in) from about 4 feet. I know they come apart when this occurs but I'd not recommend it, of course. I do recall that like most Maerklin stuff I've crashed it assembles beautifully. Sorry, this was about as helpful as...
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Offline nevw  
#11 Posted : 29 August 2007 10:28:55(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
The Lids come off easy. It is getting the Intereior out that is the problem.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline DamonKelly  
#12 Posted : 29 August 2007 17:21:14(UTC)
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DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,421
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Nev, I also have a problem with my 4228.

Well, a different problem: the copper strip from the NEM coupler pocket to the innards in one wagon appears to be corroded.
I, too, want to know how to pull these wagons open!
Or, get at the coupling mount.

I have fitted the Märklin 72020 Current-conducting Close Couplers, and they appear to work well (i.e. they conduct current well, and can indeed be uncoupled relatively easily)
BTW, this was dead-easy in the 4228 set -- simply replace the existing couplers with the CCCC's -- I didn't need any of the extra stuff provided in the 72020 kit.

Lutz, thanks for the link. Unfortunately, the Google translation is a bit dodgy, and I really don't want to charge into this without a good understanding of how one actually pulls a 4228 apart [:0]

Would any German-speaking forum member like to provide a translation? biggrinbiggrin TIA
Cheers,
Damon
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Offline nevw  
#13 Posted : 30 August 2007 04:21:25(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
DAmon.
I had a Dodgy Contact in the NEM Pocket. Used some Contact Clean and a Small Screwdriver as a scraper. ALl Fixed.
I used the RTS CC . Same as Marklin but without all of the Bits.

LUTZ,
WHile I have not done the test Exactly as you have done. I have connected One Carriage to the Baggage Car SOMETIMES the lights in the Carriage would come on immediately. Move forward slightly using the pressure of one finger and the lights would come on. Leave they stay on, small pressure of finger moving forward lights off.
When Running , the Baggage Car and ONE Other Carriage the Lights are Steady. In the Other Cars the lights go on and Off. SOmetimes for a lot of seconds.
It is either the Bearing hole corroded or as you say the Centre Earth Contact. That will be the next avenue of exploration, AFTER i get back from a 14 day torture Holiday. (Bus Tour).

Thanks again.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#14 Posted : 30 August 2007 04:46:18(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Forgot to memtion. Get Carriage on its back. Put ONe lead from Multimeter on one Wheel, Put other lead on Wheel Diagonally opposite. By moving the Probe and hence the Wheel the Circuit can be broken.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Rowan  
#15 Posted : 30 August 2007 07:56:06(UTC)
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Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Enjoy your tour mate.
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Offline DTaylor91  
#16 Posted : 31 August 2007 06:41:31(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Hi nevw,

I have taken a Rheingold car apart before, and given that experience, I'm not sure you would want to do that to solve your problem. It is NOT a job for the faint of heart! If you decide later to try, I'll take some photos and try to talk you through it.

However, you may like this suggestion:

Take a normal axle pickup, (Sorry, I can't remember the part number, but one comes in the 73405 set) cut it in half, width wise. Remove one bogie from the bottom of the car. Remove the wheelset that is on the end of the truck where a slider can be attached. lighty sand/file the platform for the slider, and clean with alcohol or similar (no, NOT beer). Do this next part quickly! With a good, hot soldering iron, "tin" the surface that you just filed, you will not need to put a lot of solder there, just a thin coating. Do NOT skip this step, or it gets more difficult - replace the wheelset. Clean and tin the underside of the now single-ended axle pickup. You will find that the axle pickup will now sit flat on the slider platform, and the wipers will already be putting light pressure on the underside of the axle. To adjust the pressure, slide the wiper towards or away from the axle as needed. While holding the wiper gently in place, take the soldering iron (make sure it is HOT), and press against the wiper just long enough that the two tinned surfaces melt, and come together. Let cool, and replace the bogie (if you can still find the cursed "c" clip). Done!

I would only do this on one axle of each car. Even with current conducting couplers, and only one slider on the train, the Rheingold is a difficult load for just about any model locomotive.

Good luck!

Don
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Offline steventrain  
#17 Posted : 31 August 2007 20:42:45(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,609
Location: United Kingdom
Welcome to the forum, Don.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#18 Posted : 31 August 2007 21:49:55(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DTaylor91
I would only do this on one axle of each car. Even with current conducting couplers, and only one slider on the train, the Rheingold is a difficult load for just about any model locomotive.

That was a very impressive first post! Welcome, and hope to hear lots more from you! Smile
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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WWW
Offline DTaylor91  
#19 Posted : 01 September 2007 05:31:21(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Thanks guys! I've actually been "lurking" here for quite some time (mulitple years), I simply kept forgetting to go through the registration process almost every time I thought of it.

I took the Rheingold car apart to have a go at detailing the interior, and reshaping the tops of the LEDs to look more like a Rheingold's lampshade. The project hit a snag for a couple reasons, one, I have yet to find a decent color photo, or color reference, of the interior of the cars in that era; and two even though I've long been an adult, I could still qualify as the "poster child" for ADHD (seriously). That also partially explains the tardiness in the registration process :)
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Offline Larry  
#20 Posted : 01 September 2007 10:01:19(UTC)
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Larry

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Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
But with ADHD you really don't miss anything; everything gets attention...for a period of time.
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Offline DTaylor91  
#21 Posted : 03 September 2007 00:23:39(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />But with ADHD you really don't miss anything; everything gets attention...for a period of time.


Thanks Larry, but even that has its problem with the VAST number of partially completed, and partially disassembled models in my work room. [:o)]

Oh yes, forgot one thing about the Rheingold cars, there shouldn't be much "flicker" if any. If there is, underneath the circuit board there is a 10µf 50V surface-mount capacitor that may need to be replaced. It should be possible to increase the value of the capacitor, in µf, as long as you maintain the 50V rating, and observe proper polarity when installing. This should increase the time the LEDs stay lit if the car looses contact momentarily. Keep in mind though, there is limited space for the capacitor, and if you go crazy increasing the value (I wouldn't go past 22µf, and only in a problematic car) keep in mind that all those capacitors will need to charge, and they will do it QUICKLY. The inrush current could trip whatever system you are using for power to go in to overload protection.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention I do electronics also. LINEAR electronics, not digital biggrin (at least not yet).

Don
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Offline Larry  
#22 Posted : 03 September 2007 20:43:15(UTC)
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Larry

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Location: Northeast Ohio
Thanks very much, Don. I had no idea that these cars had capacitors, whatever they are. I'll look into that.

I'm sure you've thought of also getting into non-linear electronics at times. Just think of those partially completed/disassembled models being your investment in an active retirement. With ADD there is never any lack in possibilities. There is always something you can do that catches your attention...not that it will ever be started much less completed!
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Offline nevw  
#23 Posted : 04 September 2007 03:31:40(UTC)
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nevw

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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Thanks Don. I wilol give it a go in about 2 months time. I will Be Mono Dextrous as getting a new Shoulder.
Thanks.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#24 Posted : 26 September 2007 04:29:25(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Having a think and also some comments re the 4228 Cars in the topic or which loco to use it would appear that these cars have a serious wheel corrosion problem.
THe stepped axel end provides the path back to the Neutral side of the Circuit.

Are we seeing a bad case of Electrolitic (Glavanic) Corrossion caused by dis-similar metals in hte cuttent path???.
Almost all who have mentioned they have the 4228 set have reported heavy corrosion.

N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline sudibarba  
#25 Posted : 29 September 2007 05:36:34(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Nev,
I pulled my 4228(tonight) out and ran it for while. Lights were acting funny like yours and then went out.I looked at the pickup slidder and the wire was completely detached. I will reattach it but maybe that is the problem. A poor connecting could cause the problem until it breaks like mine. Looking at the hookup it is bound to fail due to stress in the long run anyway with all the turning etc. A poor design.
Eric
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Offline nevw  
#26 Posted : 05 November 2007 03:36:07(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DTaylor91
<br />Hi nevw,

I have taken a Rheingold car apart before, and given that experience, I'm not sure you would want to do that to solve your problem. It is NOT a job for the faint of heart! If you decide later to try, I'll take some photos and try to talk you through it.

However, you may like this suggestion:

Take a normal axle pickup, (Sorry, I can't remember the part number, but one comes in the 73405 set) cut it in half, width wise. Remove one bogie from the bottom of the car. Remove the wheelset that is on the end of the truck where a slider can be attached. lighty sand/file the platform for the slider, and clean with alcohol or similar (no, NOT beer). Do this next part quickly! With a good, hot soldering iron, "tin" the surface that you just filed, you will not need to put a lot of solder there, just a thin coating. Do NOT skip this step, or it gets more difficult - replace the wheelset. Clean and tin the underside of the now single-ended axle pickup. You will find that the axle pickup will now sit flat on the slider platform, and the wipers will already be putting light pressure on the underside of the axle. To adjust the pressure, slide the wiper towards or away from the axle as needed. While holding the wiper gently in place, take the soldering iron (make sure it is HOT), and press against the wiper just long enough that the two tinned surfaces melt, and come together. Let cool, and replace the bogie (if you can still find the cursed "c" clip). Done!

I would only do this on one axle of each car. Even with current conducting couplers, and only one slider on the train, the Rheingold is a difficult load for just about any model locomotive.

Good luck!

Don


Don,
FInally got around to fitting Ground Plates to the car set. Gammy shoulder is not so gammy and getting better. fitted the plates slightly differently as I did not read the post before attacking the job.
However success. Lights not flickering and the loco needed just a bit more speed to get up the incline.
Thanks,
NEv SmileSmile

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#27 Posted : 18 May 2008 03:41:41(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD

Don (DTaylor91)

COuld you please send instructions to dismantle the cars. Both Damon and I need to fit new contacts from hte NEM Pocket to the innards.(the copper strip from the NEM coupler pocket to the innards).

tried to send you an email from your profile but it bounced.

THanks
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline spitzenklasse  
#28 Posted : 18 May 2008 03:52:23(UTC)
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spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Most of my train lights flicker at some point on the layout. Probably due to some dirt. Don't lights flicker some in real trains? A good wheel cleaning usually helps.
I doubt it is wear on the bogie mount bearings. It's not like these cars travel the orient express route.
Thes cars are all stamped metal. The roofs are part of the sides which is one piece. The sides are folded down from the flat stamped sheet. The top must come off, and the bottoms somehow.
At any rate, I wish I had a set. I think they are so nice looking. I think there is a cleaner that can remove corrosion from copper.
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Offline nevw  
#29 Posted : 18 May 2008 05:57:07(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by spitzenklasse
<br />Most of my train lights flicker at some point on the layout. Probably due to some dirt. Don't lights flicker some in real trains? A good wheel cleaning usually helps.
I doubt it is wear on the bogie mount bearings. It's not like these cars travel the orient express route.
Thes cars are all stamped metal. The roofs are part of the sides which is one piece. The sides are folded down from the flat stamped sheet. The top must come off, and the bottoms somehow.
At any rate, I wish I had a set. I think they are so nice looking. I think there is a cleaner that can remove corrosion from copper.

Unfortunately an essential piece has come off and the car has to be completely dismantled to get to it. Earlier in this topic there is a link to a German language description of how to do it. But all of the translation services give a very dodgy result.
Don haas done it and offered his method. at the time I did not need it but now I do.

Incidently the 4228 cars are warranted to get Highly corroded wheels and axles due to Galvanic action between dis-similar metals of the wheels and a Metal part in the Bogie. Also there was a very poor Electrical path between the Wheel axle and the metal part of the Bogie which was the circuit to the lights aand rails
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline hgk  
#30 Posted : 18 May 2008 08:40:11(UTC)
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hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean

Conductive grease?
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8463.html

Have never used it so I dont have any recommendation.

-george
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Offline nevw  
#31 Posted : 18 May 2008 08:48:18(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
George,
Thanks Due to a Very poor Construction method used the Circuit between the Return pathwire and the Rails was very erratic. Don Taylor gave us the method described below which solved the Circuitry problem. We are left with a Power supply problem from the CCC and the Coach innards and need instructions on how to fully dismantle the Coaach. Our original Cure :
Take a normal axle pickup, (Sorry, I can't remember the part number, but one comes in the 73405 set) cut it in half, width wise. Remove one bogie from the bottom of the car. Remove the wheelset that is on the end of the truck where a slider can be attached. lighty sand/file the platform for the slider, and clean with alcohol or similar (no, NOT beer). Do this next part quickly! With a good, hot soldering iron, "tin" the surface that you just filed, you will not need to put a lot of solder there, just a thin coating. Do NOT skip this step, or it gets more difficult - replace the wheelset. Clean and tin the underside of the now single-ended axle pickup. You will find that the axle pickup will now sit flat on the slider platform, and the wipers will already be putting light pressure on the underside of the axle. To adjust the pressure, slide the wiper towards or away from the axle as needed. While holding the wiper gently in place, take the soldering iron (make sure it is HOT), and press against the wiper just long enough that the two tinned surfaces melt, and come together. Let cool, and replace the bogie (if you can still find the cursed "c" clip). Done!

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline DTaylor91  
#32 Posted : 18 May 2008 09:21:27(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Nev,

I'll get on it as soon as I set up an account with a photo hosting site. Any suggestions?

Don
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Offline nevw  
#33 Posted : 18 May 2008 10:47:31(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Don, if you like you can email me the Photos..
If the Photos are reduced in Size to about 600 X 400 Pixels they come down to about 50 - 100 KB.
MAX size for an Email for me is about 5mb or you can send the Photos by yousendit.com to my email addresss and I can download and give a copy to Damon.

Your email in the profile appears faulty. Send me one via the email icon on this message and we can exchange Email addresses and sending of the files.
Thanks.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Troy Yang  
#34 Posted : 18 May 2008 11:20:45(UTC)
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Troy Yang

United States   
Joined: 10/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 356
Location: San Francisco, California USA
I got this instruction for 4228 off the now-defunct Marklin Mailing List (based in The Netherlands) many years ago. Here it goes:

1. Remove all boogies.

2. Have the coach facing bottom up.

3. At the bottom of the coach, you will see 5 rectangular
hoes on each side, with metal tabs that are bent slightly downwards.

4. With a small screwdriver (with a very thin flat edge), bend
these tabs so they are parallell to the floor, that is - just a little bit...

5. Under each floor, there is a tab (in total 4) that is bent
upwards, Also bend these so they are parallell to the floor.

6. Gently push the tabs outwards, and also help the walls
outwards a little with the screwdriver (carefully) and the metal
body will come off...

7. The couplers and their spring loading will probably pop out,
so be sure to do it in a place so that you can relocate the springs
if they happen to fly away...

When reassembling, the couplers can be a bit tricky to
get in place, especially their spring loading, but with some
care and patience it will be ok...

Marklin HO - all eras and everything.
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Offline Troy Yang  
#35 Posted : 18 May 2008 11:24:50(UTC)
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Troy Yang

United States   
Joined: 10/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 356
Location: San Francisco, California USA
I have worse problem with my 4228. Two cars are having TOTALLY dead table lights. [xx(][xx(][xx(]
May be the capacitors on the circuit board need to be replaced? confused
Marklin HO - all eras and everything.
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Offline Goofy  
#36 Posted : 18 May 2008 13:48:09(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,022
What about the power leckage on the rail...?

The reasons of why flickering happens in the lighting,can be causing by of power leckage too on the rail.

Goofy
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline nevw  
#37 Posted : 19 May 2008 01:57:28(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy
<br />What about the power leckage on the rail...?

The reasons of why flickering happens in the lighting,can be causing by of power leckage too on the rail.

Goofy

Goofy
with the 4228 the Bad flickering of the table lamps, actually the lamps go off then on again is due to very poor design in the electrical circuit from lamps to rails. Not power leakage
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#38 Posted : 19 May 2008 02:01:02(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Troy Yang
<br />I have worse problem with my 4228. Two cars are having TOTALLY dead table lights. [xx(][xx(][xx(]
May be the capacitors on the circuit board need to be replaced? confused


Troy I have one car tha tis totally dead lights. Problem is the contact strip from the Nem Pocket is not making Good Contact with the CCC.

If I put my faulty car in the Middle the following Car is dead also
If last car from hte Slider Pickup all come on except the last car.

Try changing position it may be the Connection from the CCC to the Contact in the NEM Pocket.
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline spitzenklasse  
#39 Posted : 19 May 2008 02:51:52(UTC)
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spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Nevwy, will this work? Disconnect the wires from the trucks. Run a jumper from the car next in line throught he ens corridor, one for +, one for- to the wires.
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Offline nevw  
#40 Posted : 19 May 2008 03:04:33(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by spitzenklasse
<br />Nevwy, will this work? Disconnect the wires from the trucks. Run a jumper from the car next in line throught he ens corridor, one for +, one for- to the wires.

NO Need . I can see where the Problem is. also used a Multimeter on the path. I know exactly where the problem is. The M* Piece of Copper that runs from the Nem Pocket to inside the Coach.
IT is not making contact with the CCC.

Problem is how to dismantle the Coach to replace the Y Shaped Piece of Copper that goes into the NEM Pocket.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Larry  
#41 Posted : 19 May 2008 09:29:45(UTC)
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Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
I hope you smart guys figure this all out, test it, etc., so then I can proceed with the same!

What a great set to have but having flickering or no lighting of table lamps is certainly less than optimal.
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Offline spitzenklasse  
#42 Posted : 19 May 2008 19:30:16(UTC)
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spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
I have some d/c cars that Installed lighting in, and because all I did was wrap wire around the axles, they also flicker, but only when rolling. All of the Chicago El train lights flicker when they go over track section joints.
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Offline lokbraz  
#43 Posted : 29 May 2008 11:10:02(UTC)
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lokbraz


Joined: 03/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: San Francisco, CA
Hi all,

I have the same cars, but from 26506 set. I had the same problem with couplers of cars and this is what I did:

First, clean all wheels surfaces. I noticed that the wheels of thsese sets tend to get dirty faster because they conduct more current.

Second, use current conducting couplers.

Third, try to install a second slider shoe on the car that is flickling the most. I found out that some of sliders designed to be used on older Thunderbox metal cars works for this application. This will likely eliminate or reduce a lot of this problem.

Last, if lights still flicker than is time to take apart the car [:0] according to previous description of topic. Most likely the bad source of bad contact is lack of pressure between the wiskers of swing "Y" coupler arm and receiving brass plate in the cars.

I.M.H.O. I think is unlikely that the capacitor in the light board goes bad.

Ed
My ancestors came from the land of rising sun. I was born in South America. Spent time in Europe. Now I live in California.
So, I am a builder of south american brass models. I read about the railroads on the Sierras. But I play with Marklin and have best time with my Marklin peers. wink
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Offline spitzenklasse  
#44 Posted : 29 May 2008 17:32:30(UTC)
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spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
See, there is always a solution. I look for the most obvious problem first. it is usually the simplest.
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Offline estacioncocule  
#45 Posted : 11 August 2008 03:45:51(UTC)
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estacioncocule


Joined: 18/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 52
Location: Santiago,
Hello Nev:
After searching in the different forums, I came to this thread about dead lights in 4228 cars.
I am having the same problem described by you: two cars with totally dead lamp lights.
I have already clean copper contacts and tried installing a copper piece for grounding, with no results.
¿How did you solve your problem?
Julio
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Offline cookee_nz  
#46 Posted : 02 February 2024 09:04:54(UTC)
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cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Anyone got any updates on this?

We have a club member with this issue and don't want to have to reinvent the wheel if reliable solutions have been found in the 15 years since this topic was last discussed.

Any photos of the disassembled coach would be very welcome

And please, particularly when referencing "other" forums, PLEASE include the link that you found to the information.

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
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