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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 16 August 2007 12:26:46(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
I have brought the marklin crane off ebay for 25 GBP (about US $45).

The crane was in good working ordering with light but the switch and magnet went missing.

I think the new control box cat.no number 72730 will suit the crane (for round left and right with hooks up and down).

Can you tell me what year production is the 451 crane (i think about 1960?).It is 451 under the base.

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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline hmsfix  
#2 Posted : 16 August 2007 12:43:06(UTC)
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hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi Steven,

Congratulations to your new crane! It is precisely the same as mine (rd-brown cab), which is still working nicely on my old layout. I got the crane in 1971, but it has been in production long before. Later versions had differently painted cab. Maybe you are right assuming early 1960's.

The control buttons of the crane are somewhat special. The 72730 is probably not the right item. You need 5 switches: two for each motor (forward/backward, best is a toggle type switch as used for throwing turnouts and signals), and an on/off switch for the magnet/cab light. These functions have been combined in the original control switch of this crane. Maybe you can get one on Ebay for a good price, as well as a magnet.

Hand Martin
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Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 16 August 2007 14:47:40(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks hmsfix.Smile

I will try keep looking for the switch.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline stephenbb  
#4 Posted : 16 August 2007 15:43:01(UTC)
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stephenbb


Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,836
Location: Trumbull, CT
A nice purchase!It looks great!
Stephen(USA)
ETE,NMRA,MEA
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Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 16 August 2007 16:24:31(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Stephen.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline tekin65  
#6 Posted : 16 August 2007 18:16:12(UTC)
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tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Steve hi,

Marklin started producing 451 cranes in 1950, and after 1957 the product numbering scheme is changed to 4 digit numbers so your crane became 7051. older models in stock made their way into early sixties (1960 - 1961). so i'd say your crane is probably produced in the 50's.

regards,

cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
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Offline intruder  
#7 Posted : 16 August 2007 23:22:50(UTC)
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intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Congratulations, Steven.

Some Märklin numbers for the original crane control boxes (Ein kombiniertes Stell- und Schaltpult), from Märklin Archiv:

Edit August 17, writing error:
1955-1977, blue = 476/5 (<s>7110</s> 7170 after 1957), metal frame around the coloured label
1978-, blue = 97170, glued black/white label
2001- in set 29815, white = 7279

Before 1955, when the crane had a lamp on the crane arm, There were two boxes: 474/51 for the crane operation (Stellpult) and 475/51 (Schaltpult) for light and magnet on/off.
This one had two contact rings between the tower and the crane house.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline steventrain  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2007 16:36:57(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks for the information, intruder and tekin65.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline drstapes  
#9 Posted : 17 August 2007 22:30:28(UTC)
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drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
steven,
Well done on getting your crane. However the magnet and controller are difficult to find on ebay. It took me a year of looking before I got them. I have the 7051 which works very well.
regards
Geoff
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 18 August 2007 01:07:12(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
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Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by drstapes
<br />steven,
Well done on getting your crane. However the magnet and controller are difficult to find on ebay. It took me a year of looking before I got them. I have the 7051 which works very well.
regards
Geoff


Here's 3 ebay auctions for 7051/451 crane magnets that are available right now, the last one has 2 magnets for sale.



http://cgi.ebay.de/Maerk...WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/Hebe-...WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-...egoryZ1557QQcmdZViewItem


I had a 451 crane, which I got from Scotland. I made some repairs to it to get it working, brought a magnet off ebay, and put a 7072 switch with it. The hook was also missing, and a friend made one up out of a piece of aluminum. I on sold it, then brought a really nice 7051 from Germany, which I still have. I may have a photo of the 451 somewhere.
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Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 18 August 2007 19:46:54(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks for the link.

I cannot see seller have paypal account but one have it in USA but problem with enter UK with custom fee.[xx(]
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 19 August 2007 01:08:57(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Yes, I agree Steven, I always prefer to use Paypal. Sometimes, when I send an email to a seller, they will agree to use Paypal, even though they have not indicated this on the auction. Good Luck!!

It's a bit sad you get charged customs duty with entry to the UK. You should come and live in NZ, no customs duty on anything entering NZ for personal use under about $NZ700. And I have had people tell me they have received items over $700 and have not been charged GST (VAT).
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Offline Oscar  
#13 Posted : 21 August 2007 12:12:31(UTC)
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Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
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<font face="Verdana]Nice find, Steven! I still have to add the crane to my collection one day.</font id="Verdana]
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Offline steventrain  
#14 Posted : 21 August 2007 16:28:46(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks, Oscar.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline arne  
#15 Posted : 25 August 2007 22:20:45(UTC)
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arne


Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 69
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Congratulations with the new crane, Steven!


I have actually the same crane (Märklin #451 - as taken from the bottom of the crane). I bought it at the danish auction site, QXL - www.qxl.dk.

A part of the 'auction text' said "working perfect". But that's not the truth!
- However EVERYTHING was included (magnet, controller, ..etc.) - everything. Just not in box.

The magnet works, and the magnet/hook works to go up and down etc...
But to turn right or left - there is problems! If I take a screwdriver and push (very hard) inside to the motor - between the coal and brush (almost everywhere in bottom of the motor shield), it drives fine around.
=&gt; Anyone have any ideas to fix this by this "short" description?

Well, I think it's because of missing maintenance.

My train geek, who takes care of these stuff that I cannot fix on own hand - have had my crane for some time, he said it was the coal that wasnt being push'd enough inside, and it sounds similar to the description - if I take a screwdriver and push on the shield near the coals?

Maybe a new motor shield can fix it? - Any ideas? :-)
Arne

Märklin H0, C & M Track, with Uhlenbrock's quality power and control.
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#16 Posted : 26 August 2007 00:01:29(UTC)
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CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Hello arne,

It sounds like the motor is stuck? It is hard to tell. Maybe you should check to see if there is any buildup or something caught inside. Try some LGB smoke fluid if it is old Marklin oil that has hardened.

Thanks,
Bill
MarklinStop.com Blog
CollectorMetric.com/MarklinStop
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 26 August 2007 00:27:52(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by arne
<br />Congratulations with the new crane, Steven!


I have actually the same crane (Märklin #451 - as taken from the bottom of the crane). I bought it at the danish auction site, QXL - www.qxl.dk.

A part of the 'auction text' said "working perfect". But that's not the truth!
- However EVERYTHING was included (magnet, controller, ..etc.) - everything. Just not in box.

The magnet works, and the magnet/hook works to go up and down etc...
But to turn right or left - there is problems! If I take a screwdriver and push (very hard) inside to the motor - between the coal and brush (almost everywhere in bottom of the motor shield), it drives fine around.
=&gt; Anyone have any ideas to fix this by this "short" description?

Well, I think it's because of missing maintenance.

My train geek, who takes care of these stuff that I cannot fix on own hand - have had my crane for some time, he said it was the coal that wasnt being push'd enough inside, and it sounds similar to the description - if I take a screwdriver and push on the shield near the coals?

Maybe a new motor shield can fix it? - Any ideas? :-)


Yup, I do, because my 451 had the same problem. The shaft that runs up the middle of the crane is actually a 2 piece shaft - there is another shaft that is inside the one you see. My problem, and I guess yours as well, was that the inner shaft had become stuck, probably due to the crane not being used for some time. I can't remember which shaft does what, but one raises and lowers the hook, the other rotates the cab. You can verify whether the problem is the shafts or the motor by taking the shafts out and see whether both motors run OK - I also had one motor that would not run, and it was because it was trying to drive the stuck shaft, and couldn't.

You need to take the shaft out and try to free them up. Use plenty of WD40 and squirt it down the inside shaft - they do come apart, but don't force the shaft too much, else it may break. You should also be able to unscrew the gears off the motor end of the shaft. Good luck!
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#18 Posted : 26 August 2007 01:09:22(UTC)
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CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Sounds like a good fix for the crane!

Be sure to not spray the WD-40 anywhere but on metal parts, it might damage the paint.

Good luck,
Bill
MarklinStop.com Blog
CollectorMetric.com/MarklinStop
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Offline steventrain  
#19 Posted : 26 August 2007 12:26:02(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by CCS800KrokHunter3
<br />

Be sure to not spray the WD-40 anywhere but on metal parts.

Bill


Thanks for the tip.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline arne  
#20 Posted : 04 September 2007 00:43:11(UTC)
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arne


Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: ,
I have tried spraying WD-40 on the crane's metal parts now.
It had a better effect, according to the sound while running up and down or turning left and right.

But still no result - I still have to push on the motor shield near the coals and brushes. :-(

Does anyone know wheter changing the motor (or just the shield) might have any effect here? Maybe the shield has a bow, because of it's age (and if it hadnt been in almost same temperature at all the time it had been without use)?

If I should try changing smoe of the motor parts, it might be the ones from the 60903 set, right?

Hope someone else might have an idea if there's anything else I can do. :-)
Arne

Märklin H0, C & M Track, with Uhlenbrock's quality power and control.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 08 September 2007 01:45:26(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Arne, did you take the center shafts out of the crane and try running the motors with no load? This will confirm whether your problem is stuck shafts, or a motor problem. I believe the crane uses a LFCM motor.
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Offline john black  
#22 Posted : 08 September 2007 01:59:44(UTC)
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john black

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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Beautiful addition, Steven - congratulations SmileSmileSmile
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#23 Posted : 08 September 2007 02:48:44(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
if you want to digitise it you can use two old 6080 or delta decoders. At http://layout.mixmox.com/1/digital-crane
I describe how to add one decoder to the digital version, but you can just add two in the same fashion.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline steventrain  
#24 Posted : 08 September 2007 10:29:41(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
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Location: United Kingdom
Thanks, John.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline arne  
#25 Posted : 09 September 2007 21:45:33(UTC)
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arne


Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: ,
Bigdaddynz,

I have tried taking out the center shaft (going in the middle) and running the crane wihtout no loads as you just said.
That still didn't give any better results than before.

UserPostedImage

BUT -

I still have to push near the coals and brushes - more pricesly likely here:

UserPostedImage
Arne

Märklin H0, C & M Track, with Uhlenbrock's quality power and control.
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Offline steventrain  
#26 Posted : 11 September 2007 20:01:18(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
What am i going to put 451 crane on layout or keep in storage as collector item?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#27 Posted : 13 September 2007 01:12:22(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
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Location: New Zealand
Arne, well that rules out the shafts then. It may be sticking brushes, or it may be a faulty motor shield, which is perhaps cracked,
or has a faulty connection. If you need part numbers for the crane, download the Spare Parts CDRom from this site:- http://www.marklin.com/tech/

You should be able to find the spare parts list for the crane in one of the pdf files, which are contained within the zip file that you download. Good Luck.
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Offline Ross  
#28 Posted : 13 September 2007 08:51:08(UTC)
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Ross

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Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Sydney, NSW
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz
<br />Arne, well that rules out the shafts then. It may be sticking brushes, or it may be a faulty motor shield, which is perhaps cracked,
or has a faulty connection. If you need part numbers for the crane, download the Spare Parts CDRom from this site:- http://www.marklin.com/tech/

Hi Arne, I would strip down the motors and clean them, then use new brushes. It sounds like the brushes have worn down or are dirty/oily.
Ross
Ross
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Offline WelshMatt  
#29 Posted : 17 September 2007 02:46:30(UTC)
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WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
One trick that I've found to work on Marklin loco motors is to spray some computer screen cleaning fluid (alcohol-based I think, not sure though) onto the commutator and then turn the motor by hand a little. Leave it for a few minutes for the fluid to evaporate, then put a tiny drop of oil on each motor bearing and try running it. This did wonders for a noisy, overheating 3141 - it ran like the proverbial watch after!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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