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Offline 2ndChancer  
#1 Posted : 01 July 2007 04:53:51(UTC)
2ndChancer


Joined: 06/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 587
Location: Hong Kong,
I'll appreciate some comments on these two means of detection, in context of PC comtrol.
Thank you

Eric

Cool
Offline perz  
#2 Posted : 01 July 2007 15:29:26(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,577
Location: Sweden
I haven't tested personally, but from what I have read, reed contacts influenced by train magnets is not a 100% reliable solution. I would bet on contract tracks.
Offline Maxi  
#3 Posted : 01 July 2007 23:08:31(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
Reed switches will add to the cost of the hobby and will only register that the unit with the magnet attached to it has past a certain point.

Contact tracks can be devised from existing track at no extra cost and will register every piece of rolling stock which is handy to determine if some got detached or not.
Offline steamfriend  
#4 Posted : 11 July 2007 13:12:49(UTC)
steamfriend


Joined: 19/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 376
Location: Leuven, Belgiium
Hi,

I'm using the toggle switches. Very handy, since they allow to detect direction of travel. My only problem is when using a second pickup shoe somewhere in the train (eg tail lights on a long freight train): these are detected as the next loc ! So, I cannot use them. In that sense, the magnetic swiches are preferable.

Whatever system you use, there will always be pro's and con's

Bob
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#5 Posted : 11 July 2007 17:20:31(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
All agreed, often home built contact tracks is enough for PC control; both reliable and cheap (with C-track). But the C-track toggle switches have direction sensitivity and IMHO 100% reliable. I've also heard that REED might be somewhat unreliable.

Another option is to measure power consumtion of different districts, idea from 2R. See Viessmann 2506 for analog output, or other devices who report diretly to s88 bus or LocoNet. 5206 is now under delivery, half a decade after announcement
:-)(

/Lars

/Lars
Offline pmgsr  
#6 Posted : 11 July 2007 18:35:18(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
There are already lots of topics comparing these kind of tracks and detection mechanisms.

However, i think that i can put an extra question in this topic related only to contact tracks (as said before they are cheaper and can be used for track occupancy, not only train detection!).

In a shadow station, if we want to know if a train is in a track, we should make the whole track a "contact track"? (that means cutting all the C-Tracks, mines are 24236)

Question: Can that be bad? ... we can say that trains will get current only from one side, but when the first axel reachs the begining of that track, it makes conductivity to all the tracks... extra axels will make conductivity better, and so on...
...so... this is not so bad at all? ... or not?! [:I]

Well, cutting all the tracks is a significant job with 8 or 9 tracks in a shadow station Smile
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline Maxi  
#7 Posted : 11 July 2007 18:44:54(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pmgsr
<br />There are already lots of topics comparing these kind of tracks and detection mechanisms.

However, i think that i can put an extra question in this topic related only to contact tracks (as said before they are cheaper and can be used for track occupancy, not only train detection!).

In a shadow station, if we want to know if a train is in a track, we should make the whole track a "contact track"? (that means cutting all the C-Tracks, mines are 24236)

Question: Can that be bad? ... we can say that trains will get current only from one side, but when the first axel reachs the begining of that track, it makes conductivity to all the tracks... extra axels will make conductivity better, and so on...
...so... this is not so bad at all? ... or not?! [:I]

Well, cutting all the tracks is a significant job with 8 or 9 tracks in a shadow station Smile



I have done just that for my entire layout and the running characteristics have not changed.
Offline dntower85  
#8 Posted : 11 July 2007 19:03:18(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
So what is the proper way to use a contact track. I picked up a issue of this years insider and it showed that you could connect an extra transformer across the two rails and put a light in series to have an occupational light when the train bridges the circuit. would this not be bad on the marklin system? does this put two transformers in parallel on half of the AC phase?
I can see how you could trip relays with this also but what would be the proper way to connect to an s-88.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline pmgsr  
#9 Posted : 11 July 2007 19:33:24(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85
I can see how you could trip relays with this also but what would be the proper way to connect to an s-88.


You should connect the isolated rail to the proper s88 socket (the s88 manual gives you information about what sockets should be used for Contact Tracks or other types of tracks).
This will trigger whatever you program with the Memory or Software in a digital system.
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline pmgsr  
#10 Posted : 11 July 2007 19:34:28(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Maxi
I have done just that for my entire layout and the running characteristics have not changed.


Good to know, because i'm thinking of doing it also on the entire layout, but will make it first in the shadow station.
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline Tdl  
#11 Posted : 12 July 2007 12:39:07(UTC)
Tdl

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 71
Location: Amsterdam
There is a variety of PC control applications for the MR layout.
Each has specific requirements for traindetection.

Basically on open track it is sufficient to detect the head of the train at regular intervals, providing that train integrity is being guaranteed.
Most layouts however hardly have any open track.
In stations and on yards one can achieve maximum throughput and safety
with full axle detetction.

On my layout (K-track) I have full axle detection on all tracks and tunouts.
On tracks by isolating one of the rails.
This is possible with some marklin K turnouts too.
When not I use light level measurement on turnouts: when a train passes it gets somewhat darker. By using infrared light this functions 'day and night'.

Having full train detection allows me to operate my layout through PC with high throughput and good safety.
Offline Fredrik  
#12 Posted : 12 July 2007 13:16:10(UTC)
Fredrik

Sweden   
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 642
Agreed! To detect the trains at all time is the most secure system (and how it's normally done IRL today). Off course "point-detection" works - but what if a train drops 1 or more waggons somewhere? And what if a trains stops without clearing the turnouts behind? (which also happens IRL) All my track (incl. turnouts) are isolated on one side. It can be done on all K- & C-track, although some C-track turnouts are "tricky" (especially the 3-way turnout). Also the K-X-turnout (2260) is a tricky one...
Fredrik.
*ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...)
WWW: MJ-fjärren
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