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Offline perz  
#1 Posted : 22 March 2007 22:48:02(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I'm installing turnout motors (74490) into C-track turnouts 24671, 24672 and 24612. With the 24671 (left curved turnout) there was no problem whatsoever.

With the 24672 (right curved turnout) the mechanism gets blocked if I install exactly according to instruction. The instruction picture points out three tabs (white) on the turnout motor, and they should go into corresponding holes in the turnout. But if I mount the turnout motor slightly (fractions of a mm) skewed so that the tabs do not go into the holes, it works perfectly. I then put a piece of cardboard between the turnout motor and the turnout to stop the turnout motor from going back into the "right" (i.e. wrong) position.

On the other hand: With the 24612 it was necessary to get the tabs down into the holes. If you mounted the motor a bit skewed like I did with the 24672 the mechanism was blocked.

I have tried two different 24672's and two different turnout motors and all 4 possible combinations behaved the same.

Is this a known problem with the 24672's? Although I found a working solution it is quite annoying when things do not work the way they are supposed to do.
Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 22 March 2007 23:39:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
I have installed 26 turnout motors in various turnouts all without any problem.
Ensure the turnout setting is at straight or the equivalent in the curved turnout before fitting the motor. All my turnouts are on the layout at present but if nobody else can help I will lift one and have a look.
I have found C track with motors and turnout decoders to be very reliable.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline orubias  
#3 Posted : 22 March 2007 23:46:13(UTC)
orubias

Spain   
Joined: 30/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 690
Location: Justo ahí
Can you post pics? I only have 12 mechanized turnouts, about 5 are in curved turnout, and no problems so far...

Band on the run
Offline perz  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2007 00:42:10(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Ensure the turnout setting is at straight or the equivalent in the curved turnout before fitting the motor.


Well, if I had missed that I would have had more serious problems, hadn't I?

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Can you post pics?


Yes:

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Offline foumaro  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2007 08:59:52(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,422
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
That problem is very strange.The way you put the turnout mechanism is
the same at any turnout you use.If the way you put the 74490 is wrong
you cannot screw the mechanism on the turnout.confused
Offline perz  
#6 Posted : 23 March 2007 09:22:11(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Yes, I think it is very strange. If I place the tabs in the holes, as is clearly shown on the picture in the installation brochure, it does not work. But if I skew it just a little so that the tabs go outside the holes, it works. It is a matter of fractions of a millimeter, so it is still possible to fit the screws.

Am I really the only one in the world with this experience? Have I perhaps got a faulty batch of turnout motors? The turnouts are from different deliveries and probably not from the same batch.
Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2007 11:10:09(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
Ignore the tabs arrowed in your picture and just use the tabs that the screws go into and screw into the turnout raised sockets.
Sorry Perz but I really cant see what is wrong here but the tabs you arrow I have not even looked at when fitting a motor. The other tabs on the motor that the screws go into fit on top of the raised holes and this automatically lines up the motor with the turnout.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Caplin  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2007 19:50:40(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar
<br />Ignore the tabs arrowed in your picture and just use the tabs that the screws go into and screw into the turnout raised sockets.
Sorry Perz but I really cant see what is wrong here but the tabs you arrow I have not even looked at when fitting a motor. The other tabs on the motor that the screws go into fit on top of the raised holes and this automatically lines up the motor with the turnout.

David


I agree with David, I didn't take any notice of the tabs and holes (marked in red circle 2 in the instruction leaflet) when I assembled mine. I just wrigled the motor gently until it sort of clicked in place (fully down). I guess that the tabs just aligned, as you have no way of actually checking it. Unless the motor is fully seated, the turnout cannot lie on a flat surface without wobling, which it an indication of incorrect installation. It is all very snug fit.
I have more motors to install, so if I encounter problems, I shall return with my findings.
BTW, I havn't figured out what the 3 small grey plastic things are (2 flat plates and a lever), that are included in the package, perhaps to do with the lantern kit (which I have not aquired at this time). confused

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline orubias  
#9 Posted : 23 March 2007 20:18:23(UTC)
orubias

Spain   
Joined: 30/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 690
Location: Justo ahí
All has been said, I can´t se nothing wrong. The white carboard, is for..?

Band on the run
Offline Hoffmann  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2007 22:10:53(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Perz,

Is it possible that your Turnout Motor is slightly bend ??

If have seen this before when a Customer bend the Turnout Motor frame.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline Caplin  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2007 22:19:54(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz

.....Is this a known problem with the 24672's? Although I found a working solution it is quite annoying when things do not work the way they are supposed to do.


Hi Per,

I go back on my previous answer!![:I], as I am just now installing a 74490 assembly on a 24672 recently purchased. I had no problem with two 24672's bought last year (my reference for answering), but I found on this newer one, that the mechanism almost blocked when installed normally. As a test I installed that same 74490 assy on two other turnouts (unfortunately I have no more curved ones), and they both worked as intended. So it seems that the problem lies with some 24672's themselves as you implied.
My working solution is not the carbon method (does the bottom of the drive assy not extend down under the bottom of the turnout?), but if referring to your bottom picture, I applied some pressure to the drive in the direction of your red arrow, so the upper screwhole just misaligned with the screwpost by appr. 1/4 hole or less - still with the assy fully down, then I bent the lip with the screwhole back to alignment before inserting the screw. Now the thing works. Smile
I suppose the skewed position of the assy could be fixed more permanently if a suitable clamp was inserted between the assy and the standout of the turnout outerwall just above the letter "d" of your word "cardboard" (bottom picture).
So I agree - this is quite annoying to have to "re-adjust". [:(!]
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline perz  
#12 Posted : 24 March 2007 10:55:38(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Is it possible that your Turnout Motor is slightly bend ?

Tried two different ones.

Everything (turnouts, turnout motors) is completely new out of the box. I have handled everything very gently, and not used any brute force.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I go back on my previous answer!!, as I am just now installing a 74490 assembly on a 24672 recently purchased. I had no problem with two 24672's bought last year (my reference for answering), but I found on this newer one, that the mechanism almost blocked when installed normally.


It is not clear to me whether the problem is with the turnout or the turnout motor. If you haven't tested the same turnout with different turnout motors or different 24672 turnouts with the same turnout motor you can't really tell. But at least you confirm that the problem exists, and also that it is a "new" problem, i.e., if your turnouts and turnout motors are old enough you don't see the problem.

So we should make Märklin aware of it.
Offline David Dewar  
#13 Posted : 24 March 2007 13:56:17(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
I still dont know what the holes arrowed in the turnout are for and what they have to do with the motor. Can anyone explain.
I have always just used the tabs and screwed them to the turnout.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline charles Sharpe  
#14 Posted : 24 March 2007 16:55:09(UTC)
charles Sharpe


Joined: 21/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,432
Location: NORFOLK UK
Hello Perz. I agree with david I have twenty all wired up and I must I have never looked at the white bits. Just screw the motors down with the two black screws supplied and go for it .When it come to wiring I am as thick as 16 planks so if I can do it so can you .PS Just enjoy it.
CHARLES SHARPE
Offline stephenbb  
#15 Posted : 24 March 2007 17:37:42(UTC)
stephenbb


Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,836
Location: Trumbull, CT
I have sixty turnouts with motors and remote controls none of them give me any problem. I use the two screws to attach them and they work just fine.
Stephen(USA)
ETE,NMRA,MEA
Offline perz  
#16 Posted : 24 March 2007 18:07:14(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
All you guys who report no problems, have you done it with things bought recently? If we believe Benny (Caplin) the problem is there with new 24612's and/or new 74490's but not with old ones.

It should be as easy as just putting the turnout motor in place and fasten it with the two screws. It is that easy with the 24671 and the 24612. But not with the 24672. Not any longer.

There are three theories:

1. A faulty batch/batches of 24672.

2. A faulty batch/batches of turnout motors.

3. I am a complete idiot, and Benny too.

I do not vote for #3 biggrin
Offline steventrain  
#17 Posted : 24 March 2007 18:31:42(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,610
Location: United Kingdom
I have 69 turnouts included 7 of curved with motors fit in it with no problem at all.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline rschaffr  
#18 Posted : 24 March 2007 18:32:21(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Hmmm. I did some a few years ago with no problem. I recently bought some new motors for my Grandson's carpetbahn, but haven't gotten around to putting them in. Maybe I'll try it this weekend and let you know. We'll see if it is the new motors.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Caplin  
#19 Posted : 24 March 2007 20:45:46(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark

Maybe a bad batch of the 24672's were just exported to Scandinavia, because we are wellknown to be able to find a solution!!!biggrinbiggrinbiggrin.
No, seriously - It is good to hear that this problem is so scaresly seen. I understand your sceptisism in your replies as to Per and I must be doing it wrong, because it is so straight forward, but I can only say that I assembled my ten kits 74444 very gently and with great care and I had no problems before the 24672 in question, which, btw, was the sixth one done, and no problem with the last four ones. So more suggestions of wrong doing I tend to ignore. wink
My suggestion as to what the small white tabs are used for, is that they may have a use during factory assembling of the 74490 - otherwise none. They need to drop into the holes when inserted correctly (screwholes aligned with their stand-offs), which they do in 99,99999% as it seems!
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline David Dewar  
#20 Posted : 24 March 2007 21:09:50(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
We have to get an answer here guys as I know Perz is an experienced modeller. Benny can you compare with another turnout in case you have a rogue one. If you have one turnout which works OK with a motor then it should be easy to see which is at fault with the one that does not work.
If somebody has a 24672 that is OK perhaps a picture could let Perz and Benny compare it with their one.
Unfortunately all mine are on the layout.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Bob R  
#21 Posted : 25 March 2007 00:27:16(UTC)
Bob R


Joined: 18/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 502
Location: , Texas
I am having a similar problem with a 24712 Right Turn out. Thought it might of been a motor or the decoder so tried another one in it. Same thing. Works one way but not the other. Tried the same motor and decoder in another turnout and no problem. Looks like a little more detective work to do.

Bob
Offline David Dewar  
#22 Posted : 25 March 2007 00:42:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
Bob. Are you having a problem with the deocoder as well as the motor because if so I would be sure it must be the turnout that is at fault. Both parts can be fitted on the turnout ..the motor with screws and the decoder just lies on top of pins.
All we need are two screws and two holes and if it doesnt fit the turnout but fits in another turnout then the turnout must be at fault.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Caplin  
#23 Posted : 25 March 2007 05:51:20(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
This is my observation regarding the cramping/blocking problem. Unfortunately I cannot supply close-up pics, so pls. accept my drawing instead.
I reinstalled another "motor" on the 24672 to recreate the cramped movement. When I removed the grey plastic cover of the shifting mechanism itself - I found that the movement bacame very easy going, then when reinstalling the plastic, the cramped movement was back! I cannot determine what parts is slightly out of tolerance.
Bad news about a 24712 with this problem too.[:(]

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Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline David Dewar  
#24 Posted : 31 March 2007 17:49:06(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,351
Location: Scotland
Benny Perz Bob. Anything happening with this problem. I would be interested to know the outcome.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Hoffmann  
#25 Posted : 31 March 2007 21:19:54(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario


Hi all,

It would be nice to know what the Date Code is on these Turnouts. The Code is a small circle with a arrow pointing to the month and the Year is on either side of the arrow( Sorry I have no Picture ).
Further more on the mechanism cover is the Part # 24672 or 672 only.

I have the notion that the made in Hungary Turnouts have a problem with
the injection molding specifcaly with the Pin which holds the shifting lever ( the black lever with the spring under the cover ).

Please return these Turnouts to your Dealers for replacement under Warranty.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline Caplin  
#26 Posted : 01 April 2007 20:25:57(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Hi Martin, David, Bob

My 24672's have two different date codes.
The older one has 6/04 with the full part no. 24672 on the bottom plastic shield.
The newer one has 5/06 with only 672 and CE on the shield. (I no longer have the third one). If the switches are set to right turn, there is a nice clearence for the lever with the square hole to move perpendicular to train movement on the older one, whereas the newer one has hardly any clearence.

As I wrote earlier, I made a work around to make the faulty one work satisfactory. So I am not likely to go to the dealer with this one.

Bob, I have only one 24712 (rh slim) which does not have the problem. It's date code is 2/04 with 24712 and Made in Germany on the shield. BTW all Shields have the trade mark märlin as well.
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

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Offline rschaffr  
#27 Posted : 02 April 2007 05:16:26(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Finally got around to installing mine in two curved switches from my Grandson's starter set. The lantern kits, motors, and Viessmann decoders all went in flawlessly.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline perz  
#28 Posted : 04 April 2007 11:27:25(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
The date code on the turnout is 01-11, the number on the cover plate for the mechanism is 24672.

I think it is a problem with a combination of tolerances for both the turnout and the turnout motor. By bending the turnout motor mounting tab closest to the turnout mechanism a little I can make it work perfectly. This can be done by hand, without using tools, but I had to use more force than I would normally apply when mounting things like this.

Normally I support the idea to send back faulty items even if there is a simple fix, since sending them back is a way to make the manufacturer aware of the problem. But in this case we need the turnout now and do not have the time to wait for a replacement.
Offline Caplin  
#29 Posted : 04 April 2007 14:43:07(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />The date code on the turnout is 01-11, the number on the cover plate for the mechanism is 24672.


Hi Per,
Date code 01-11 - are you sure? The imprinted circular read-out is supposed to point to a month within a fixed year. Your reading tells me january 2011 - somewhat premature (or 1911! If the latter, it must be leftovers from alians!!)wink

I tend to agree with you about returning faulty stuff, but as we or dealers have no pattern yet to identify bad series, you may still get another faulty one for replacement (I can see a Catch22 here - if we don't return, we don't get a pattern!!). [:(]
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline perz  
#30 Posted : 05 April 2007 01:23:42(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
The arrow is pointing at 11. The numbers in the circle are 0 and 1.
I would interpret it as November 2001, but I don't know how these numbers should be interpreted.
Offline Hoffmann  
#31 Posted : 05 April 2007 03:51:54(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Perz,

As far as I know there was no Problem with any C-Track Turnouts made in 2001,
you must have received a faulty one ( it can happen ). In my opinion your Problem is a bent or distorted shifting lever ( thats the black unit under the cover with the return spring ).
As with all thinks made once in a while a bad unit slips thrue the inspection (if inspected at all).

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline Caplin  
#32 Posted : 05 April 2007 12:51:36(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />The arrow is pointing at 11. The numbers in the circle are 0 and 1.
I would interpret it as November 2001, but I don't know how these numbers should be interpreted.

Hi Per,

You are right and I am not wrong!wink

The arrows points to a month 1-12 (not 01-12).
In the date codes I reported earlier the arrow just happened to be pointing at a one-digit month.
It boiles down to wether one writes the date code as (m)m-yy or yy-(m)m, in other words arrow preceeding circle or circle preceeding arrow.[B)]

I now suppose that the preferred format is yy-(m)m in this forum (as most people in the world properly use that).

I am sorry everyone if I added confusion to the subject in my previous reply to Per.[:I]
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline perz  
#33 Posted : 05 April 2007 23:35:20(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I have tested with another 24672 which is made February 2004. It had the same problem. I have tested two turnout motors and the two 24672's in all 4 combinations and the problem was there in all cases. But after bending the mounting tab on the turnout motor, the problem has gone away.
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