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Marklin old metal vs current passenger cars
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Offline meina222  
#1 Posted : 01 March 2007 00:19:22(UTC)
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meina222


Joined: 27/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 44
Location: ,
I'd like to hear some opinions on the feel and look of the the Marklin old metal coaches (like 4085, 4059, 4051, 4029) vs the newer current ones. I have to say that I have been collecting only the former since I find the lack of metal body on the newer ones very spoiling (for me personally.) On the other hand the new ones have close couplers. What other features of the new ones make them stand out? I don't own a single one that's why I ask.

Also is it possible to install close couplers on old coaches like 4085?
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Offline hxmiesa  
#2 Posted : 01 March 2007 10:41:14(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,597
Location: Spain
The never ones also permit current-conducting couplers!
They are a LOT more detailed.
They are less "wrong" in the scale-length. (24cm being 1:110, 27cm being 1:100, and the new 28.2cm ones being 1:93.5)
They are lighter, so the loco can pull more of them.

Although theoretically mechanically possible, I dont think it is realistic to install KK-pockets in the old 24cm tinplate waggons.
Märklin had an extensive series of articles about re-fitting all types of rolling stock to KK, and the 24cm waggons were NOT included in this series. (somebody correct me if I am wrong)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline rugauger  
#3 Posted : 01 March 2007 15:32:30(UTC)
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rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Hernik's list is a very good starting point. I'd like to add:

1. I think the latest coaches all come with red lenses, so fitting tail lights should be easier. Maybe Marklin will even release a kit?

2. Secondly, some of the (even) older metal coaches do not even have an interior...

Having said that, I don't think you can beat the "feel factor" of the old 24cm coaches. There's just something about these metal coaches rattling around the layout (preferably on M-track, for the right level of decibels wink ). To me they represent a statement of Marklin's history. And let's face it - the originals are metal, too! But I know this has been covered in a different topic somewhere in this forum.
Richard
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Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#4 Posted : 01 March 2007 15:37:40(UTC)
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jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 655
Location: Buenos Aires,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by meina222
<br />Also is it possible to install close couplers on old coaches like 4085?

Weinert-Modellbau offers a metal KKK which should fit, it can be fixed under the car with a single screw.
Perhaps you'll need to fix the buffers to the chassis.
I have some goods cars with metal chassis fitted with them.
Have fun...
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
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Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 01 March 2007 15:47:56(UTC)
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rschaffr

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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,188
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />
Although theoretically mechanically possible, I dont think it is realistic to install KK-pockets in the old 24cm tinplate waggons.
Märklin had an extensive series of articles about re-fitting all types of rolling stock to KK, and the 24cm waggons were NOT included in this series. (somebody correct me if I am wrong)



I did a thread a few years ago on installing NEM pockets on these bogies for RTS couplers. See https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=4491

Works great.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Offline rschaffr  
#6 Posted : 01 March 2007 15:51:34(UTC)
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rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,188
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />
Quote:
Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />
Although theoretically mechanically possible, I dont think it is realistic to install KK-pockets in the old 24cm tinplate waggons.
Märklin had an extensive series of articles about re-fitting all types of rolling stock to KK, and the 24cm waggons were NOT included in this series. (somebody correct me if I am wrong)



I did a thread a few years ago on installing NEM pockets on these bogies for RTS couplers. See https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=4491

Works great. I have converted almost all my tinplate coaches this way. I have left a few untouched that have some collector value (such as the two silberligne coaches I got from the Red Skelton estate).

As to the lack of interiors, I have constructed interiors using Evergreen polystyrene sheets as floor and square rods as bench seats. I painted them leather brown. They don't stand up to close inspection but they do hold seated Preiserlings and look fine as the coach passes by.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Offline hxmiesa  
#7 Posted : 01 March 2007 16:18:43(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,597
Location: Spain
Right.
I stand corrected then, in the viability of mechanically fitting these couplings, but I dont see any symoba guide (dove-tail) installed! Doesnt that render the whole issue numm??? I mean; how many millimeters are won this way??? Are the waggons now coupled "short"?

I dont know if the Weinert set referred to by Jorge Vilarrubi has this short-coupling guidance?!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline rschaffr  
#8 Posted : 01 March 2007 16:21:14(UTC)
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rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,188
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
No. My main purpose was to provide current to the car from the lok. I did move them somewhat closer, as close as they could go without interference between the buffers. Since the buffers rotate with the bogies, this helped quite a bit.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Offline pserup  
#9 Posted : 01 March 2007 17:15:48(UTC)
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pserup

Denmark   
Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Ramløse, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rugauger
<br />(...) I think the latest coaches all come with red lenses, so fitting tail lights should be easier. Maybe Marklin will even release a kit?
They have! 73407 listed in 2007 catalog [^]
CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV
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Offline meina222  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2007 17:24:50(UTC)
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meina222


Joined: 27/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 44
Location: ,
I have about 40 metal coaches. The 4085's, 4051's and alikes have interoir. The sleeping ones like 4029 and 4064 don't but I don't find this as disturbing as the very light plastic coach I handled ones in a store. I'm sorry if this topic has been covered before, but I spent quite some time wondering if I should go with collecting old or new ones. The only realism spoiling feature that really bugs me is the coupling. Not the shortness or the lack of lights or detailed interior.

And what makes you think the new ones are so much more detailed on the outside - I think the old ones are better.
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Offline meina222  
#11 Posted : 01 March 2007 17:45:48(UTC)
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meina222


Joined: 27/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 44
Location: ,
rfschafr (sorry if I spelled your nick wrong),

Judging from your posts you seem to be a very good craftsman. I still get a heart attack when trying to remove a coach roof to clean up the interior or install lights - it always seems to me that something will get scratched and the roof never seems to fit right afterwords. I'm not as skilled and really don't know if I will embark on drilling 2mm holes. For now I'll keep the original couplers.

Given your experience - what's the best way to open a brand new metal coach roof (like 4029) and place it back so you can't tell the difference after :)
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