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Offline Andyroo  
#1 Posted : 03 January 2007 19:46:36(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Hi there,

My name is Andy and I'm from the UK, however I'm half German and whilst in Germany over Xmas I bought a Märklin Start Set - No. 29144, Br80 with 3 goods wagons. I found it in Aldi at what seemed a keen price of €99.99. It came with a traditional transformer control, but the loco is apparently compatible with digital control.

I'm very pleased with it and yesterday I ordered some further items a Regional Express Digital Start Set - No. 29470 and Expansion Set - No. 78055 over the internet.

These two sets obviously haven't arrived yet as I only ordered them late last night. My question is, as I was doing some further reading today I came accross another set that seems indentical to the 29470 which is numbered 29475. As far as I can work out the only difference is a couple of small digital functions which I'm struggling to understand. The retail price difference in the two sets is very small and sometimes non existant when various sellers discounts are taken into account.

Can anybody clarify the differences in these two sets? Would I be better off with 29475 rather than 29470?

Many thanks,

Andy
Offline stephenbb  
#2 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:04:35(UTC)
stephenbb


Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,836
Location: Trumbull, CT
Welcome to the group!
Stephen(USA)
ETE,NMRA,MEA
Offline mz_1414  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:15:47(UTC)
mz_1414


Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 413
Location: ,
Welcome to the forum Andy
Offline Andyroo  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:22:20(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Thanks for the welcome Stephen and Peter.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I tried to link to the product details for the two sets on the Märklin website, but in my technical ignorance I couldn't manage it.
Offline mz_1414  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:22:43(UTC)
mz_1414


Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 413
Location: ,
I will go for 29475, it´s the best start, of this two
Offline jocoyn  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:29:07(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
I am fairly new to this as well - welcome to the forum where real experienced folks will chime in I am sure. The help here has been valuable indeed.

If you can read German an explanation of the digital icons etc. is on www.marklin.de with the product database - I think a difference may also be the 230 volt tranformer but I have bought sets with parts numbers for 230 volts though, and requested the 120v transformer since I am in US. It looks like the year of production of the 29475 is newer and I "think" there are upgrades available to the Mobile Station since 29470 so you may want to inquire about that - hard to do without being able to physically visit a dealer {note to self - find out if the upgrade would be necessary for my use}

I am not really sure if there are different with regards to digital features - looks like it from the description on Marklin but not sure you could do anything with the differences using the Mobile station?

I would find out from whoever you are buying - there are variations in descriptions of the differences on several sites.

I have used rocousa.com as a source for some english descriptions as well as AJC kids [I have bought from both but they are US supplier and AJC Kids has been very helpful technically]

This is electric so I gather it does not *require* caternary but is designed to run with over head wires, no?

Being early one of the decisions you will need to make is what you want to do - you can go full blown digital with the central staion or aftermarket digital systems

None of the sets you metion offer digital control of turnouts etc. - they are just basic controllers that allow you to run multiple trains simultaneously and are the "new" replacement for the Delta control.

(Yes Delta is digital but there are many more things you can do with a sophisticated digital system - I stuck with the old route where you have to push buttons on a box to switch turnout switches but with a central staion you can control them from the station and control accelleration/deceleration and a slew of other things) - I am using my Mobile Station Transformer to power the track and the Delta transformer to provide power to my turnout mechanisms.

Anyway I guess what I am saying is you may want to have fun with your start set and do some more research before getting into the next one ...................... For me the MS was fine. True Full Featured Digital start sets get you into a much higher price range.

But since you have already ordered, I don't think the 29470 would be a waste - others can answer that. Hope this is not too scattered - I have a bad sinus infection (not my propulsion system :) ) and a bit woozy plus still have a LOT to learn.
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline jocoyn  
#7 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:39:04(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Andyroo
<br />Thanks for the welcome Stephen and Peter.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I tried to link to the product details for the two sets on the Märklin website, but in my technical ignorance I couldn't manage it.


I can actually help you with something :)

http://www.maerklin.de/produkte/pdb/index.php

Use the above link and put in part number in artikel nr, the press antzeigen - there are all kinds of other links within the page
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline intruder  
#8 Posted : 03 January 2007 20:43:48(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Welcome to the forum, Andy
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline mz_1414  
#9 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:09:51(UTC)
mz_1414


Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 413
Location: ,
29470 / 29475 is 230 volt, but 29470 was Released 2005 and 29475 in 2006, but in 29475 the train has FX decoder and a better motor
Offline steventrain  
#10 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:16:33(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,645
Location: Northern Ireland
Welcome to the forum Andy.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/K-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy/Collection of old Marklin from 1950s.
Offline rschaffr  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:23:23(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,170
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Welcome Andy. Once you catch the Marklin bug it is very hard to recover! Smile
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline orubias  
#12 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:23:47(UTC)
orubias

Spain   
Joined: 30/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 690
Location: Justo ahí
Welcome, Andy, a nice set to start with Marklin...

Band on the run
Offline Andyroo  
#13 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:24:59(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jocoyn
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Andyroo
<br />Thanks for the welcome Stephen and Peter.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I tried to link to the product details for the two sets on the Märklin website, but in my technical ignorance I couldn't manage it.


I can actually help you with something :)

http://www.maerklin.de/produkte/pdb/index.php

Use the above link and put in part number in artikel nr, the press antzeigen - there are all kinds of other links within the page


Ah yes I got that far, however whatever product you are looking at on the site, the url in the address bar is always:

http://www.maerklin.de/produkte/pdb/index.php

Which means you can't link directly to individual products, or at least I can't, because I don't know of a way of discovering the individual page url.
Offline soren36  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:26:15(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Nancy / Andy

RE: "
http://www.maerklin.de/produkte/pdb/index.php

Use the above link and put in part number in artikel nr, the press antzeigen - there are all kinds of other links within the page"

Go to the site, click on the American Flag and, Voila - Anglais!
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline jocoyn  
#15 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:26:50(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
But the product you are looking for pops up with descriptive information, does it not?

Maybe confused about what you are looking for there.
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline perz  
#16 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:30:01(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,517
Location: Sweden
According to the Märklin product descriptions the differences are:

- The 29475 contains 9 of the 24172 straight tracks. Not mentioned with the 29470. This could be a difference to the favour of 29475, but it might as well be a typo.

- The connection tracks have different numbers: 2290 for the 29470 and 24088 for the 29475. Obviously a typo since the 2290 is K-track!

- It doesn't explicitly state 230 V for the 29470. But it says "Mein start mit Märklin" on the box, so it is probably for the German market, i.e., 230 V.

- It doesn't explicitly say "Attribute:digital" for the 29470, but it is obviously digital anyway.

- It doesn't say "fx" and doesn't show the high efficiency digital drive symbol for the 29470. Probably Märklin just missed it, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the loco functions.

- It doesn't say the 29470 loco has traction tyres. But it almost certainly has that anyway.

- It doesn't show a symbol for "ordinary" (not close) NEM couplers for the 29470 set. Probably also missed by Märklin.

All together, the main difference seems to be that Märklin made better proof reading of the description for the 29475 set than for the 29470. Unless the lack of 24172 tracks in the 29470 is a real difference of course.
Offline soren36  
#17 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:33:20(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Nancy - if you click on the American flag, all descriptions come up in English, the French flag in French, etc. Just enter the article number and click "view".

Pity this doesn't hold true for the entire web site.
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline Andyroo  
#18 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:39:12(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mz_1414
<br />29470 / 29475 is 230 volt, but 29470 was Released 2005 and 29475 in 2006, but in 29475 the train has FX decoder and a better motor



So ideally I would want to have the 29475. I'll have to see if I can maybe change my order.

What would these differences mean in terms of operation? I guess the better motor is self expanatory, but the FX decoder means very little to me?

I think I'm struggling to understand the decoder types, just when I think I'm beginning to grasp them another variation appears! As far as my research leads me to believe they are all compatible with the same basic control system though..........right?
Offline DasBert33  
#19 Posted : 03 January 2007 21:57:06(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,160
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
I think the only difference between the sets is the box styling and the transformer casing. No need to bother to change your order I think.

Could also be that the MS has a more recent database, but maybe you can ask if the seller wants to update it before shipping.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Bert
Offline perz  
#20 Posted : 03 January 2007 23:15:44(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,517
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mz_1414
<br />29470 / 29475 is 230 volt, but 29470 was Released 2005 and 29475 in 2006, but in 29475 the train has FX decoder and a better motor



As I pointed out in my earlier post, these differences are probably not real, just typos in the 29470 description. But I can't say for sure. It doesn't say "fx" in the 29470 description, but the description of the features matches the Märklin definition of an "fx" loco: A digital loco with at least one controllable function besides the headlights, but without the possibility to register itself in the CS/MS. The extra function in this case is the ability to turn acceleration delay on/off.

Some people interpret "fx" as being on-track programmable. This is however not the way Märklin define it in their catalog.
Offline jocoyn  
#21 Posted : 03 January 2007 23:22:37(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />Nancy - if you click on the American flag, all descriptions come up in English, the French flag in French, etc. Just enter the article number and click "view".

Pity this doesn't hold true for the entire web site.


[:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I][:I]

Well, I did qualify I too was on the learning curve wink
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline nevw  
#22 Posted : 04 January 2007 00:51:18(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,002
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Nancy,
Most of us here are on a Learning curve. I learn something new almost every day from here. Smile
Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline HueyCE  
#23 Posted : 04 January 2007 02:46:58(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Andyroo
<br />
I think I'm struggling to understand the decoder types, just when I think I'm beginning to grasp them another variation appears! As far as my research leads me to believe they are all compatible with the same basic control system though..........right?

You are correct. Just to keep it simple at this point:While there are differences between the decoders and what they are capable of, they can all be controlled by a Mobile Station, it's big bother the Central Station, or the older generation controller the 6021. I am talking about only the Märklin decoders. There are other decoder makers- ESU, Viessmann, etc can also be used but that can be covered later once you get that far.
By the way- Welcome to the forum Andy.
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline soren36  
#24 Posted : 04 January 2007 03:14:15(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw
<br />Nancy,
Most of us here are on a Learning curve. I learn something new almost every day from here. Smile
Nev


That gets a BIG ditto from here, Nev
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline jocoyn  
#25 Posted : 04 January 2007 18:07:12(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
I really do wish there was a good BEGINNER summary (Maybe I can write an aricle some day but not at my level) on an intro to Marklin as there are so many variants out there. and things have changed some since the articles in the article section. The USA web site is awfully out of date and I guess I should check to see if other sites in English are any good.

I guess my advice really is to figure out what is important to you - if you want prototypical operation with trains slowing down (instead of coming to abrupt stop) at signals and tracks laid to typical formats then I *think* digital with CS or other variants (older Marklin, the other systems) is the only way to go.

If you just want to play some for fun with no more than 2 manually controlled trains at a time (and maybe others running independantly on loops they cannot crash with other trains). and are more into the layout, I think the MS system is adequate.

If I had the money I would definitely go the full blown digital route - I think it opens up so many more possiblities.

I am pretty sure if you get the MS set that you can use the MS controller along with the central station if you do that later. And the Delta transformer has other uses. I think pretty good about the whole system is upgradabiltiy / compatibility.
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline intruder  
#26 Posted : 04 January 2007 20:21:05(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
I'm happy as long as my learning curve is pointing upwardsbiggrin
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Andyroo  
#27 Posted : 04 January 2007 21:35:00(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Thanks for all the help folks, I'm gonna see what I get when the set arrives and then I'll post some details and pictures.

It's kind of a joint railway with my father, I bought the first set I mentioned over xmas but he is paying for these items we have on order. If I were buying these next items in our collection they would have been Era 3 rather than a modern set.

He's more interested in train operations but I'm more interested in the layout scenery particularly as my main interest is commercial vehicles and particularly Magirus Deutz ones.
Offline jocoyn  
#28 Posted : 04 January 2007 22:21:02(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
A good combination though! You will make a good team. I just ordered some scenery books recommended on this site. One thing I did wish I knew about more before I did my layout is prototypical track design though.
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#29 Posted : 04 January 2007 23:22:39(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
My guess,
is that it's mostly the package that is different. "Mein Papa unt ich" / "My father and me" is a Märklin sales campaign; the content might not be very different. The colout of the trafo has changed, possibly. There can be changes in motor etc, but those things have happened before also without changing number.

/Lars
Offline Andyroo  
#30 Posted : 11 January 2007 20:25:51(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Hi again everybody,

the stuff I ordered arrived today and I've been having a play with it and I'm very happy. I'll post some pictures soon.

I've got a small problem with the loco from my original set though, the BR 80.

I want to open it up to change the settings inside to operate with the Mobile Station. According to the leaflet for the loco there should be a screw in the top of the loco to remove the "bodywork" so that I can change the settings. However there is no hole and hence no screw visable in the place shown. I wondered if there is a removable cap, but it appears to be a one piece mould as all the flash lines meet up along the top.

Can anybody offer any advice....the loco part number is 29144 according to the leaflet.

I'll take some pictures and post them in a second.

Andy
Offline Andyroo  
#31 Posted : 11 January 2007 20:31:16(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Pictures:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Offline Ray  
#32 Posted : 11 January 2007 21:21:37(UTC)
Ray


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: Ocala, FL
Hi Andy,
this should be a cap and flip open. Try careful to open.
From Florida,

Rainer
Offline rschaffr  
#33 Posted : 11 January 2007 21:35:50(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,170
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Yes..the top of the second dome (sand or steam???) should lift off. use your thumbnail and gently pry it off.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Andyroo  
#34 Posted : 11 January 2007 22:51:17(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
I did try, maybe I was being over careful with it.

Anyway....I managed to move the slider through the cab window with a pin! I only needed to move one of them so it wasn't too bad.
Offline steventrain  
#35 Posted : 11 January 2007 22:52:54(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,645
Location: Northern Ireland
Hi Andyroo,

What country do you live?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/K-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy/Collection of old Marklin from 1950s.
Offline rschaffr  
#36 Posted : 11 January 2007 22:53:22(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,170
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Ok. Take a close look at both domes. I guess it could be either. Look for a seam around the circumference of the dome.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#37 Posted : 11 January 2007 23:39:23(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,565
Location: New Zealand
Welcome to the forum Andy. CoolCool
Offline Andyroo  
#38 Posted : 18 January 2007 00:44:50(UTC)
Andyroo


Joined: 03/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
<br />Hi Andyroo,

What country do you live?



I'm in the UK, Norfolk to be precise.
Offline RayF  
#39 Posted : 18 January 2007 01:09:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,332
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Andyroo

It is interesting that your start set brings a Br80, but from your pictures I can see that it is the old Primex model with 2 domes, and not the Marklin model which has 3 domes.

I wonder if the Marklin instructions are deficient because of the unusual combination.

I agree that there should be a little cap on one of the domes covering the screw. As Marklin used the Br89 (3000) chassis for the Primex Br80, I would assume that the dome holding the screw should be the rear one, nearest the cab, as on the Br89.

I could be wrong though!

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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