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Offline nevw  
#51 Posted : 27 January 2007 01:30:02(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black
<br />Fair right [^] ... And thanks, Neville - for fighting that decisive first battle for us Smile

Missed this one John,
I was not the first, Hans Martin did one earlier, not with MFX though, all I did was follow his instructions.

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline john black  
#52 Posted : 27 January 2007 17:22:06(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Ah, well ... so the very same thanks to Hans Martin, too Smile - both of you are true pioneers !!!
Sorry - but with that huge amount of information here in this great forum I tend to forget some of it [:I]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline alonso231gery  
#53 Posted : 27 January 2007 17:31:34(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Is there an Amtrak loco that has a 4 digit code and has 3 parts?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline john black  
#54 Posted : 27 January 2007 17:39:11(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />Is there an Amtrak loco that has 3 parts?

Yep - #37621, A-B-A, 2 motors, 6090 Digital FX, 1997-1998
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline alonso231gery  
#55 Posted : 06 August 2007 04:21:01(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Hello Nev , you used the ESU 62436 MFX Loksound decoder so as to control the two motors ?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline nevw  
#56 Posted : 06 August 2007 05:53:12(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />Hello Nev , you used the ESU 62436 MFX Loksound decoder so as to control the two motors ?


Yep that is the decoder I used. HOWEVER I think that the Part Numbers really refer to the Sound File Loaded. I have had no problems with driving the 2 Motors.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline alonso231gery  
#57 Posted : 06 August 2007 13:51:14(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Two fx decoders with the same adress is an option ?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline laalves  
#58 Posted : 06 August 2007 15:37:27(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />Two fx decoders with the same adress is an option ?

It is, but IMHO it's more likely that you may run into different running speeds of the two motors, since you will in fact have two different loks, knowing nothing of each other. If you use the same decoder, you'll be reducing the probability of trouble biggrin.
Offline alonso231gery  
#59 Posted : 06 August 2007 16:16:57(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Hello Luis .
M does not produce a decoder for 2 motors , so i am trying to figure out what should i ask from ESU .

Can you solder two cables instead of one ?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline hmsfix  
#60 Posted : 06 August 2007 17:06:19(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi all,

Connecting two dc motors in parallel to one decoder sounds primitive, but I think it is a very safe and intelligent circuit, as the motors tend to sync their revolution speeds. Impossible when each motor has its own decoder.

That's easy to see. Consider the case that one of the two motors has a higher revolution speed than the other, for some reason. As a consequence it generates a higher voltage across its brushes, and thus supplies additional electic power for slower motor. This slows down the faster motor, and speeds up the slower one, i.e. the faster motor works as a generator.
Well, that's a strongly simplified explanation, but mutual stabilization of two parallel dc engines is well-proved when e.g. combining several electric generators in power plants.

Hans Martin
Offline Guus  
#61 Posted : 06 August 2007 17:24:11(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Nikos,

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Nikos:
...., so i am trying to figure out what should i ask from ESU .

For example HAG uses a single Lokpilot 2.0 for powering two motors in their Re 6/6 Cargo Muri model.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline laalves  
#62 Posted : 06 August 2007 18:15:12(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />Hello Luis .
M does not produce a decoder for 2 motors , so i am trying to figure out what should i ask from ESU .

Can you solder two cables instead of one ?


As a matter of fact it does, albeit only as a spare part. One such example are the twin swiss loks, 37591 and 37593 and their decoders P/N 600597. They're big but I'm pretty sure you'll have the room needed in your basically empty F7. However, I see no need for such a costly solution, when you can perfectly use even a bog standard Lokpilot, not to mention a Märklin 60902. Rest assured it will work very well.

If you are really, really afraid of excess current draw, there's even another ESU solution for you a LokpilotXL or even a LoksoundXL. The LokpilotXL will actually fit in H0 loks, such as the F7 and many other big diesels and electrics. Not sure if the LoksoundXL will fit though. If I remeber correctly, the LokpilotXL is capable of handling 3 amps motors! Still, by all means use a standard H0 decoder such as the Lokpilot.

It's perfectly adequate, and you just have to connect the motors in parallel. As Hans explained, one will stabilise the other, and the result is a very strong and stable puller.

Ah, just rememebered another twin motor example: my turbine train, the BR602. It has a single, normal Loksoundmfx in it and it pulls like a horse.

Luis
Offline alonso231gery  
#63 Posted : 06 August 2007 20:06:04(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Hello Guus , Hans and Luis .
I have seen how the motor is connected with the decoder , i guess what u have to do is to remove the two delta decoders and connect the LoksoundXL to both locos , by soldering the first motor to the decoder and connecting to the soldering point the other motor as well , is that the in paraller connection Luis ?
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline laalves  
#64 Posted : 06 August 2007 20:10:45(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery
<br />Hello Guus , Hans and Luis .
I have seen how the motor is connected with the decoder , i guess what u have to do is to remove the two delta decoders and connect the LoksoundXL to both locos , by soldering the first motor to the decoder and connecting to the soldering point the other motor as well , is that the in paraller connection Luis ?


It is. But do ponder the extra spending in an XL decoder. As I said the standard Lokpilots and Loksound will be more than enough. Still, if you're REALLY afraid of having a limit in the output current to your motors, the XL decoders are the sure way to go.

Good luck, and be sure to report on your efforts.

Luis
Offline alonso231gery  
#65 Posted : 06 August 2007 20:14:50(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
Thanks Luis , i am just making plans , but the canditates for that conversion is a twin motor f7 or a delta V188 that i want also to paint snow camouflage on her .
When i will do it i will make a thorough report with images .
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline nevw  
#66 Posted : 07 August 2007 02:00:28(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Hans Martin and I have done the F7 with only one Delta Decoder. Hans used the Loksound and I Used the MFX. as far as I can remember there was only one Decoder in the F7 from New.

Use the MFX Loksound Decoder
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline hmsfix  
#67 Posted : 07 August 2007 13:26:16(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Yep, that's right.

The Lokpilot and Loksound decoders can handle 1,1 A of motor current. On my double motor F7 I never have more than 0,35 A per motor. No risk.

Hmm, in principle one could even control a super cool triple motor F7 consist with one decoder (= 1,05 A max.) CoolCoolCool

Hans Martin
Offline john black  
#68 Posted : 10 August 2007 00:26:03(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hmsfix
<br />Consider the case that one of the two motors has a higher revolution speed than the other, for some reason. As a consequence it generates a higher voltage across its brushes, and thus supplies additional electic power for slower motor. This slows down the faster motor, and speeds up the slower one, i.e. the faster motor works as a generator

Thanks, Hans Martin - this is most interesting information Smile
Reminds me a bit of "Das physikalische Gesetz der kommunizierenden Gefäße" ...
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline jonquinn  
#69 Posted : 10 August 2007 04:34:31(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
here's another option for re-motoring
http://www.sb-modellbau....ucts_id=476&cPath=27

I think I will do it on my alaskan F7. I have a few others, and if that works well, they will get the same treatment.
it will get a loksound decoder too.
Offline hmsfix  
#70 Posted : 10 August 2007 11:56:36(UTC)
hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi Jon,

Installing a Faulhaber motor is indeed an interesting option. Old F7 will run like a Big Boy, I guess Cool.

Hans Martin
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