Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: ,
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I visited my MRR-pusher on friday and came out on the street with a set of ep.3 Langenschwalbacher passengercars among other things. I came home today and after dinner I put the consist together, and it is really nice [:p]
Was there any rules on where to put the car(s) with first class compartment(s) in the train?
Had "all" passenger trains (local and regional) first class compartment(s)?
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Best regards MartinB
Märklin Systems K-track and C-track Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3 |
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Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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MRR-pusher! That's good. I have a MRR-dealer  . How did you manage to wait the long time from Friday afternoon to today? You must be a patient man, Martin. |
Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
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Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by intruder<br />MRR-pusher! That's good. I have a MRR-dealer  . We are appearantly on two different stages of the disease  (Du husker kanskje sangen om Ståle Krapyl på byens HIFI-asyl? Du bli'kke rekti' fresk før du har hatt det rekti' ille) Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by intruder <br /> How did you manage to wait the long time from Friday afternoon to today? You must be a patient man, Martin.
I was away for the weekend, patiently waiting for monday to come  |
Best regards MartinB
Märklin Systems K-track and C-track Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3 |
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Joined: 17/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 970 Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MartinB <br /> Was there any rules on where to put the car(s) with first class compartment(s) in the train?
Just a guess..... maybe closest to the bar?  
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands
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There are not strict rules, but: — Most of the time the first class is on the most calm side of the train, most of the time the first class are the last cars in the train. If not, the first class cars are divided from the locomotive by bagage cars. — If there is a dining car in the train, the kitchen is at the 2nd or 3rd class side, the lounge of the dining car at the 1st class side of the train. — Splitting or combining cars can break this rules. — If a car has 3rd/2nd and 1st class compartments, the 1st class compartments are NOT above the wheels or the bogies.
But again, these are not strict rules. |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands
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An example: In this train the bagage cars are used to divide the locomotive from the passenger cars.  |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands
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Other example: On the NS diesel train sets, the first class was in the most far car from the engine car:  As you can see, the 2nd class was next to the engine of the train:  |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Wurttemberg
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MartinB <br /> Had "all" passenger trains (local and regional) first class compartment(s)?
Hi Martin, Usually a first class part was very rare in 1950/60s local trains in Germany. But the traffic from WIESBADEN to BAD SCHWALBACH (former name Langenschwalbach, home of the "Langenschwalbacher") was very different from other local lines. BAD SCHWALBACH was a very important health resort for women, mostly noble women. So a first class was necessary on that line. Markus
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 2,379 Location: Lindome, Sweden
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AFAIK answer seems very good to me, in particular for steam eras. Electric locos might change things, as it becomes more comfortable to be close to the loco; no great difference but slightly less jerky I think.
Nowadays nobody cares. :-(
/Lars
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Joined: 05/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Markus Schild
Usually a first class part was very rare in 1950/60s local trains in Germany. But the traffic from WIESBADEN to BAD SCHWALBACH (former name Langenschwalbach, home of the "Langenschwalbacher") was very different from other local lines. BAD SCHWALBACH was a very important health resort for women, mostly noble women. So a first class was necessary on that line.
Hi Markus, Thanks for the reply!  I understand that you have some knowledge about this area and the cars in question. Do you know what kind of engine that would be prototypical in front of these cars? Right now the v140 hauls mine (not so prototypical), but I think maybe the BR85 would look cool too. |
Best regards MartinB
Märklin Systems K-track and C-track Deutsche Bundesbahn Ep.3 |
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Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
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Of course MRR-pushers exist, as well as locomotive pushers in the prototypical world: Per. Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 15:29:28(UTC)
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If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.  |
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Cool,thanks for sharing the pictures.It is class 7MT Britannia. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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I think there were and are rules and guidelines where 1st and 2nd class coaches should be. Before 1956 there were 3 classes in Western Germany; can't say much about that time; but it's a fact that some trains only had 2nd and 3rd class at that time. In 1956 classes 1 and 2 formed the new 1st class while 3rd class was renamed to 2nd class. Examples of trains with 2nd class only are the "Schienenbus" and short trains with only 2nd class "Donnerbüchsen." Local trains in era 3/4 normally travelled from A to B where the loco changed position and then back to A again. Some trains travelled in triangles: from A to B and further to C and back to A - therefore on the next run the coaches where in reversed order. I think 1st class coaches are normally in the middle of the train. Long distance trains often changed direction (and loco) on their journey. For example in 1956 there was a train from Kiel to Landau that changed direction in Hamburg-Altona, in Kassel, in Frankfurt, in Stuttgart, and in Friedrichshafen Stadt. When changing locos, they sometimes also added or removed coaches. Therefore the train consisted of groups with different destinations - and these groups often had 1st and 2nd class coaches. 1st class coaches could appear on any place in the train.
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Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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For Germany, as pointed out, its a mixed bag.
Some train stations in large cities there, are dead-end stations, so the engine pulls the train in and is stuck. A new engine is attached to the former back end, and then the train leaves in the opposite direction from how it came in.
Some of these dead-end train stations can have very long platforms. You would typically want the 1st class to be closest to the street side - less walking when getting on board. Or if the train ends in such a station - you want the 1st class to end closest to the street.
As stated, cars are added or split off as well. I remember catching trains in my youth and having to check the destination cities of the CARS as as I got on board to be sure I could stay seated in my car while the train went through Frankfurt a.M and end up where I wanted to go.
I would think the general rule of thumb would be you don't want 1st to be between groups of 2nd class cars if possible, to avoid all of the foot traffic thorugh the 1st class section. Putting the dining or bar car between the classes works great.
But this can be one of the great activities in modern hobby railroading. Your InterCity pulls into your dead-end station, and while there, its your job to re-arrange the cars and locomotive so the outbound train is in the same configuration. Not something that would happen for real unless all the passengers were let off first, but a fun activity.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Michael Meinhold writes in his book "Zugbildung (4)" about DB passenger trains in era IV that 1st class compartments shall be in one group in the middle of the train. And for trains with 2 AB coaches or 1 A and 1 AB coach, 1st class compartments shall be side by side in one group. Restaurant cars shall be between the A group and the bigger B group. IC trains are a different story: as of '79 they have one A group and one B group with a restaurant car between them (starting 1979, before '79 there were only 1st class coaches in IC trains).
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Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby
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I would say in most cases the 1st class wagon is the first (preferrably) or last in the train. If there is more than one, they are grouped together. If the train has a restaurant waggon it is situated next to the 1st class coaches or if it is a long train (more than 6 wagons or so) in the middle, but usually slightly towards the 1st class end.
Baggage wagons are always in one end of the train, and usually the rear end. It is acceptable for 1 st class passagengers to have to walk through the 2nd class wagons to get to the restaurant wagon, but you don't usually make passengers with 2nd class tickets pass through the 1st class.
In my collection I have a 1st class DB coach with tail lights, suggesting it would be the last in a train set... |
K-G / H0 and Z model train user |
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