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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2006 15:27:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
Hi fellows...!

I wonder if there is anyone who has or did seeing c-sinus motor in function at DCC power...? confused

There has been some trouble by using it at Marklins digitalsystem motorola,but what in the DCC...? confused

Anyone...? confused

Goofy confused
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Davy  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2006 21:34:01(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
For Trix Marklin will make locs with the new sinusengine and DCC decoder.
M-track with a CS2.
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#3 Posted : 23 October 2006 14:56:10(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
As far as I have seen, the mfx models with C-sine motors have a separate circuit board for the motor control. This board should work with any decoder.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline Hemmerich  
#4 Posted : 23 October 2006 16:24:34(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kgsjoqvist
<br />As far as I have seen, the mfx models with C-sine motors have a separate circuit board for the motor control.


Correct! For both versions of Märklin's C-Sine motors corresponding driver pcb's exist. Latest one's can be seen for example in these models:

BR151 Railion (#39582) in comparison with BR151 DB-Cargo (#37432)

UserPostedImage

BR103 (#39572)

UserPostedImage

and here (compact C-Sine) (new V200/Am4/4):

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:This board should work with any decoder.


I can't say if/that it works with any decoder, but for sure it works with Märklin aka ESU decoders which are equipped with the 21-pin mtc interface, so DCC is no issue at all there. Reason why I say this is that you need additional power/signal lines which may not be available with any decoder.

UserPostedImage

I've already several models with both C-Sine motors and these drivers, either new or retrofitted myself, and as mentioned earlier I am more than satisfied with the performance of these motors.
Offline Hemmerich  
#5 Posted : 23 October 2006 16:28:23(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy
There has been some trouble by using it at Marklins digitalsystem motorola,


Can you please be a little more specific? I have now several models with these new motors and they work all excellent, regardless if MM, mfx or even analog (which I just use for some testing/validation purpose with such models).

Thanks in advance.
Offline laalves  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2006 16:57:02(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Lutz, how much do you usually pay for the driver board, c-sinus motor and loco specific PCB? Just an indication of the typical value would be fine.

Luis
Offline Hemmerich  
#7 Posted : 23 October 2006 20:20:55(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Luis,

both driver pcb's (#108459 and #10908) have PG13. The compact C-Sine (#109105) has PG14 and the large C-Sine (#213284) PG18. The loco specific pcb's ("mtc Schnittstellen") range between PG08 (#611686, just fitting into the regular decoder holder) and PG13 (#611625 for the BR290) or even more, depending upon the model.

Personally I don't worry too much about the parts price(s), also because my local dealers have partly substantial lower spare part prices than for example LokShop (just to name a common "reference").
For me it's the fun factor and satisfaction in "enhancing" my models what counts. What I may spend more for certain special parts is more than compensated by the time spent in doing it myself.
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 24 October 2006 20:29:13(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
I mean that you are driving Trixlocomotivs with c-sinus motor on the 2-rails with DCC...!

I`m not writing about Marklins loco with DCC decoder,instead 2-rail loco with same motor as Marklin...!

Anyone,please! confused

Goofy Cool
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 27 October 2006 21:05:58(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
Still nobody who can answers...? confused

Okey!!!

Tomorrow i shall visit a hobby name www.togcenter.dk and www.kystbanen.dk in Denmark by shopping...! [:p]

I tell to you later when i have got information about c-sinus motor 2 generation!!!

Have a nice weekend!

Goofy Cool
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Hemmerich  
#10 Posted : 27 October 2006 22:07:15(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Hi Goofy,

assuming you too know which TRIX models are offered so far with the new C-Sine motor the lack of responses to your inquiry should not be a surprise at all - none of them has been delivered yet. Cool

Regarding your comment about Märklin (Center rail) vs. TRIX (two rail) this should make no difference when using DCC, MM or mfx decoders. I don't know if anyone has so far replaced the factory delivered mfx decoders of the Märklin model with new C-sine by a DCC decoder (at least I haven't and I have no real reason to do so wink).

So, when you talk about "problems" without being more specific I would doubt that you will get any reasonable answer at all - at least not until the new TRIX models are delivered since they come with a very specific DCC/Selectrix Decoder.

What else do you expect the dealers whom you plan to visit to tell you? They have not even seen those models.
Offline MärCo  
#11 Posted : 27 October 2006 23:16:12(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
Goofy is a person that can't be satisfied and changes from AC to DC every year or so.
Don't bother or react.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline laalves  
#12 Posted : 28 October 2006 00:30:21(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />Goofy is a person that can't be satisfied and changes from AC to DC every year or so.
Don't bother or react.


biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin
Offline Hemmerich  
#13 Posted : 29 October 2006 02:47:46(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />Goofy is a person that can't be satisfied and changes from AC to DC every year or so.
Don't bother or react.

Hi MärCo,

responses to a specific posting knowingly can be read by ALL participants.

Since I usually try to treat all members here with equal seriousness, my response - regardless of being addressed specifically to Goofy - has the intention to provide value not only to him, but all readers.

Even if I am using the Märklin center rail system with the MM/mfx digital system, I am always open and interested to learn about other flavours and thus improve my own knowledge. This can only be achieved by (fair) discussions and information exchange. I assume that many other model railroad fans feel the same; otherwise we not not want to "meet" in places like this excellent forum.

So, despite that I wonder a little bit about Goofy's messages, I am not really bothered or dissappointed. Time will tell us more if anything new happens. Smile

Best
Offline MärCo  
#14 Posted : 29 October 2006 09:32:35(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
OK, point taken.
But Goofy appeared under more names on this forum, and it is known that he changed from AC to DC visa versa several times after having critisism to Märklin or other brands, or the digital control system used by several brands. I have no problem with AC or DC model railroaders, but every system has it advantages and disadvantages. And you can rather learn to live by them, instead of giving spicy critisism to them and selling all your stuff all together.
And I promise to be more polite in the future.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline perz  
#15 Posted : 29 October 2006 13:07:55(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I think Goofy's question is relevant. The new C-sine+mfx locos show a number of "problems" (I have listed them in another topic). My qualified guess is that all or at least most of these "problems" are related to the mfx decoder and not to the new C-sine motor. It would be interesting to get some more evidence that supports that assumption. For anyone who find these "problems" annoying enough to want to fix them, that would be good news. Replacing/modifying the decoder is surely a much simpler task than replacing/modifying the propulsion system.
Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 29 October 2006 14:28:02(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
I`m now very dissapointing what you are writing like this about me...! [xx(]

I was only writing some question and not attacking against 3-rail or 2 rail people...!!!

What a sucker you are!!!!!!! [xx(]

And besides,Trix has already gave out a model name "Henchel-zug" that has c-sinus motor.It`s stand so in the Trix-cataloug and are saying too with c-sinus motor.

I have not yet seen anyone model with c-sinus motor in action...!For 2 rail system...!

[}:)] Goofy [}:)]
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline laalves  
#17 Posted : 29 October 2006 16:46:41(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy
<br />What a sucker you are!!!!!!! [xx(]
[}:)] Goofy [}:)]


I don't think this sort of behaviour should be allowed in this forum.

Luis
Offline soren36  
#18 Posted : 29 October 2006 17:16:21(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Timaximus
<br />
I just buy things and use them as say in the manual.[/i]

Timaximus


Amen, Timaximus! BTW - very interesting to watch your progress.

Hal
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline Hemmerich  
#19 Posted : 29 October 2006 19:03:14(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />I think Goofy's question is relevant. The new C-sine+mfx locos show a number of "problems" (I have listed them in another topic). My qualified guess is that all or at least most of these "problems" are related to the mfx decoder and not to the new C-sine motor. It would be interesting to get some more evidence that supports that assumption. For anyone who find these "problems" annoying enough to want to fix them, that would be good news. Replacing/modifying the decoder is surely a much simpler task than replacing/modifying the propulsion system.


Thanks for your "reminder", Perz!

I still want to further investigate into the issues you had reported there and come back with my (hopeful supportive) findings.

One thing should be clear/understood upfront: The decoder and C-Sine driver pcb have been "updated" several times already (I am not sure but doubt about the motor itself), thus it would be worthwile knowing their versions too (if possible).
Offline Timaximus  
#20 Posted : 29 October 2006 19:58:15(UTC)
Timaximus

Netherlands   
Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,412
Location: Home
Hello Lutz,

When you compare both the C-Sine (old and new) on your layout, can you see substantial differences in any operating characteristics?

Timaximus
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet
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