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Offline Alex H  
#1 Posted : 02 November 2025 10:27:47(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
I am hoping that someone may be able to offer me a solution to my problem. I am building a new DCC based layout, built with C track and including some 30 turnouts. I have used the 74462 decoders and 74491 motors in the turnouts. I am using a YaMoRC YD7010 DCC Controller, although I also have a Roco Z21 (Black) controller, and the issue remains with either. My layout is L speed 4 x1.2 m and 3 x 2 m.

My issue is intermittent problems of the turnouts not switching when commanded. This is not restricted to specific turnouts but across the whole layout. Any one turnout will be working one moment and then not the next. However, if I test a non-working turnout connected to the programming track it will work perfectly, switching on command, and the CV values are all correct. I have tried setting CV8=8, as suggested in some other thread posts, but that has not worked. If I then replace the turnout back onto the main track it will either still not work, or work once and then fail. I don't understand why a turnout will work on the programming track, and then not work on the main track.

I am currently laying down the track and wiring it up, so at present there are no other sensors or accessories connected to the layout. I have used 24/0.2 wire for the track power feed, and have between 16.5 and 17.2 voltage on track and at the turnouts when I test with my multimeter. I have power feeds to the track piece adjacent to the turnouts.

My layout building at a standstill till I can resolve the issue and I am not sure the best way to move forward. I understand from other posts on this and other forums that others have suffered from similar problems and thus any advice or suggestions as to how to resolve the problem would be most welcome.

Many thanks
Offline pederbc  
#2 Posted : 02 November 2025 11:12:39(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi Alex,

A quick question: can you run a digital engine without problem?

Peder
Offline Alex H  
#3 Posted : 02 November 2025 11:22:36(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Alex,

A quick question: can you run a digital engine without problem?

Peder


Hi Peder

Thanks for your post

yes locos run OK.

Alex
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 02 November 2025 12:42:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,670
Location: Paris, France
Hi Alex
Officially, Märklin has finally resolved the reliability problems on the point motors 74491 /74492) while stil maintaining the end shut-off contacts active (it is safer)
On previous units, in digital (my case on my 50+ switches and DSSs) the shorting of the shut-off contacts will work fine PROVIDED you use recent decoders 60832 or "embedded" 74462. This is because, no matter what, those decoders will not activate the solenoid for longer than 0.2 seconds

This is for the electrical part, there remains the mechanical part. Over the years, you may observe some units being stuck and I found a clean way is to make then do some "gymnastic" at each start of day (using Rocrail in my case but it also can be made using an event on a CS3 or a MEMORY on a CS2.

Now, the rate of failure is less than one motor replacement per year (I would say closer to 1 failure every two years with a 500 to 700 hours of operation per year.

Cheers
Jean

Offline Alex H  
#5 Posted : 02 November 2025 12:58:39(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Alex
Officially, Märklin has finally resolved the reliability problems on the point motors 74491 /74492) while stil maintaining the end shut-off contacts active (it is safer)
On previous units, in digital (my case on my 50+ switches and DSSs) the shorting of the shut-off contacts will work fine PROVIDED you use recent decoders 60832 or "embedded" 74462. This is because, no matter what, those decoders will not activate the solenoid for longer than 0.2 seconds

This is for the electrical part, there remains the mechanical part. Over the years, you may observe some units being stuck and I found a clean way is to make then do some "gymnastic" at each start of day (using Rocrail in my case but it also can be made using an event on a CS3 or a MEMORY on a CS2.

Now, the rate of failure is less than one motor replacement per year (I would say closer to 1 failure every two years with a 500 to 700 hours of operation per year.

Cheers
Jean



Hi Jean
Many thanks for your post.
Just to be clear in my mind, are you saying that the 74491 and 74492 motors were the ones giving reliability issues, or that the 74491 and 74492 motors are the motors that have resolved the issues. It's just that my motors are all 74491's. All of my turnout decoders are the 74462.

Many thanks

Alex
Offline rhfil  
#6 Posted : 02 November 2025 13:43:02(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 772
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
If the switches work properly when they are connected to the programming track but not when they are connected to the operating track it would seem to me the problem is with the controller.
Offline Alex H  
#7 Posted : 02 November 2025 13:55:11(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
If the switches work properly when they are connected to the programming track but not when they are connected to the operating track it would seem to me the problem is with the controller.


Hi
That was one of my thoughts, so I switched out the YD7010 Controller for the Z21 controller and got the same results, so I dismissed that. I also suspected that it could be my wiring so ran some wiring straight from the controller to one short section of track, with two sets of turnouts attached. The turnout nearest the power supply didnt work, as usual, but the second turnout worked perfectly. Both worked perfectly on the programming track.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 02 November 2025 14:22:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,574
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Alex H Go to Quoted Post

Just to be clear in my mind, are you saying that the 74491 and 74492 motors were the ones giving reliability issues, or that the 74491 and 74492 motors are the motors that have resolved the issues. It's just that my motors are all 74491's. All of my turnout decoders are the 74462.

Many thanks

Alex


It is not clear to me if you are testing the decoder with the point motor that it will finally drive, or with another point motor.

All 74491 point motors have the problem with the end cutoff microswitches eventually having problems with the contacts inside the microswitches arcing and eventually burning leading to the point motor not operating. The fix is to solder a bridge wire across the microswitch connections. There is a mk2 version of the 74491 where Marklin attempted to alleviate the contact arcing problem, but they also eventually have the same problem.

My understanding (I don't actually have any myself yet) is that the 74492 point motor has a low resistance thermistor in series with the solenoid coils which will heat up and go higher resistance limiting the current if the pulse driving the motor is on for an extended period of time. There is therefore no microswitch with contacts that arc.

As you are using 74462 decoders which will limit the length of pulse driving the solenoids I would recommend that you rework all your point motors, shorting out the microswitches. They may even fall off the board if your soldering iron is large enough to melt the solder on all three leads at once, in which case a short piece of wire between the holes will suffice.

I suggest you modify two or three point motors and see if that improves their operation before doing all of them.

Offline osoraku  
#9 Posted : 02 November 2025 14:25:30(UTC)
osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 76
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear Alex -

Could it be track geometry? I had a problem once with a very simple, C-track layout (i.e., 3 rail) consisting of a straight section of track with a reversing loop at each end (connected with a turnout; a dumbell-shape). It was fed with power and control signals from a MS2+gleisbox at a single connection point.

I found that unless I put isolators (74030s, the red things) in the reversing loops somewhere, I could not run locos properly (they would stutter and run slowly). My guess was that there was interference with the control signals going both ways round the reversing loop. If you have a similar geometry (or one that leads to control signal interference), that could be the problem actuating your turnouts on the layout, as opposed to on the programming track.

(I would like to know why isolators are required for this track geometry, but that probably is a separate forum topic.)

Osoraku
Offline Alex H  
#10 Posted : 02 November 2025 14:31:13(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alex H Go to Quoted Post

Just to be clear in my mind, are you saying that the 74491 and 74492 motors were the ones giving reliability issues, or that the 74491 and 74492 motors are the motors that have resolved the issues. It's just that my motors are all 74491's. All of my turnout decoders are the 74462.

Many thanks

Alex


It is not clear to me if you are testing the decoder with the point motor that it will finally drive, or with another point motor.

All 74491 point motors have the problem with the end cutoff microswitches eventually having problems with the contacts inside the microswitches arcing and eventually burning leading to the point motor not operating. The fix is to solder a bridge wire across the microswitch connections. There is a mk2 version of the 74491 where Marklin attempted to alleviate the contact arcing problem, but they also eventually have the same problem.

My understanding (I don't actually have any myself yet) is that the 74492 point motor has a low resistance thermistor in series with the solenoid coils which will heat up and go higher resistance limiting the current if the pulse driving the motor is on for an extended period of time. There is therefore no microswitch with contacts that arc.

As you are using 74462 decoders which will limit the length of pulse driving the solenoids I would recommend that you rework all your point motors, shorting out the microswitches. They may even fall off the board if your soldering iron is large enough to melt the solder on all three leads at once, in which case a short piece of wire between the holes will suffice.

I suggest you modify two or three point motors and see if that improves their operation before doing all of them.



Hi,
Thanks for the post

I am testing the the decoder with the motor point that it will drive.

Thanks for the info on the microswitches. I might try one and see how it goes.

Alex
Offline rhfil  
#11 Posted : 02 November 2025 15:05:39(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 772
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Connect the non-functioning switches to the programming track and ensure they are working properly that way. Then swap the power to the programming track with the regular power output and see if they continue to operate properly. That should indicate whether you have a wring problem or a controller problem.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 02 November 2025 15:21:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,670
Location: Paris, France
Hi Alex
Originally Posted by: Alex H Go to Quoted Post
Just to be clear in my mind, are you saying that the 74491 and 74492 motors were the ones giving reliability issues, or that the 74491 and 74492 motors are the motors that have resolved the issues.It's just that my motors are all 74491's. All of my turnout decoders are the 74462.

The motors 74491 and 74492 are identical, the difference is the cable the first is for "Normal" wiring and the second one is for Märklin Start-up for young ones to avoid cabling.
The motors have been changed multiple times by Märklin so the manufacture date is key. On the last one I seem to remember a small label with the month and year of fabrication.

Cheers
Jean

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Alex H  
#13 Posted : 02 November 2025 17:13:08(UTC)
Alex H

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/03/2017(UTC)
Posts: 144
Location: England, Devon
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Connect the non-functioning switches to the programming track and ensure they are working properly that way. Then swap the power to the programming track with the regular power output and see if they continue to operate properly. That should indicate whether you have a wring problem or a controller problem.


Thanks, I will try that tomorrow morning

Alex
Offline pederbc  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2025 00:45:50(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi again,

One thing that hit me was: one problem could be if you by any chance are using an analog C-track connection track. They have a builtin noise filter that could possibly create this problem. What contradicts this is that the engine is running OK.

If you remove all engines and other power sources from the tracks, try to connect the programming track outlet instead. If that creates the same problem it means the problem is in the layout.

Good luck, anyway, Peder
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by pederbc
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