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Offline marklin81  
#1 Posted : 02 March 2025 23:19:18(UTC)
marklin81

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Virginia
I recently purchased a Marklin 3023 online. The challenge -- lights work, reversing unit cycles, but no movement of the locomotive or armature. It is a beautiful locomotive, and I hope to get it running soon.

Here is what I have done to troubleshoot the problem:
- Thorough cleaning of all gears and the armature. With the brushes removed, everything spins very easily. No armature rotation.
- Replaced brushes and eased the tension a bit on the brush springs. No armature rotation.
- Confirmed track voltage present at brushes with a voltmeter. No armature rotation.
- Put the suspect armature in a 3021 locomotive; both share the same 800 style armature. The armature rotated and the 3021 locomotive moved as expected.
After successfully testing the 3023 armature in the 3021, I started looking elsewhere.

At this point, I'm suspecting the field magnet. To check:
- I placed a paper clip on the iron plates with track voltage applied to the locomotive. No evidence of a magnetic field.
- To confirm that test method, I did the same with the 3021 locomotive and the paper clip was definitely attracted to the iron plates and actually stayed perpendicular to the plates.

Before I search for a 20287 field magnet, can anyone suggest troubleshooting steps I may have overlooked?

Best regards,
Pat
Offline analogmike  
#2 Posted : 03 March 2025 00:30:14(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
If you verified voltage to the field, then I would isolate the field wires and check ohms through the field.
Mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline marklin81  
#3 Posted : 03 March 2025 22:28:03(UTC)
marklin81

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
If you verified voltage to the field, then I would isolate the field wires and check ohms through the field.
Mikey


Mikey, thanks for that idea. Let's pretend that I interpreted your advice correctly. Below outlines what I did to check resistance through the field.

I placed multimeter leads at the points shown in the diagram from service manual, where the field magnet red and black wires are soldered into the reversing solenoid:

service manual wiring.png

I measured resistance with multimeter across those points with no track voltage -- about 3 ohms. I then increased track voltage to about 7 volts and measured again -- again, 3 ohms (essentially no change).

As always, any feedback from forum members is appreciated.

Pat
Offline RudiC  
#4 Posted : 03 March 2025 22:57:41(UTC)
RudiC

Germany   
Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
Do you have continuity from the (right?) brush to the stator coil?
Does any current flow at all if track voltage is applied (NO light bulbs! NO reverser relay!)?
Regards,
Rüdiger (Rudi)
Offline marklin81  
#5 Posted : 04 March 2025 00:51:32(UTC)
marklin81

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by: RudiC Go to Quoted Post
Do you have continuity from the (right?) brush to the stator coil?
Does any current flow at all if track voltage is applied (NO light bulbs! NO reverser relay!)?


Let me start with the good news: all is well with the locomotive! It runs in forward and reverse, using either track or catenary as power source.

What happened?

When I received the locomotive, lights and reversing unit were functioning, but the locomotive did not move. I removed the shell and the brushes to determine if gears were gummed up with old lubricant. Yes, the gears were very hard to turn, so I cleaned with lighter fluid and everything turned freely. I took the opportunity to lubricate the armature sponges and replace the worn brushes. However, when track voltage was applied, nothing moved. Please note: I did all of the troubleshooting outlined in my first post with the shell removed.

When I read Rudi's note, I wanted to confirm what I had seen earlier. I placed the shell back on the chassis, installed the lights, and tested the reverser and lights. To my surprise, the locomotive started moving smoothly and quietly down the track. I was very happy.

What did I learn?

The 3023 does not operate without the shell and light bulbs in place. Perhaps other Marklin electric locomotives of that era with lights that switch over to match direction are the same?

My thanks to Mikey and Rudi for asking the right questions.

IMG_20250303_182121164.jpg
Offline Paul59  
#6 Posted : 04 March 2025 09:19:05(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: South East
Glad it is now going.
However, something is strange as they certainly do run without the body and lights fitted.
It could be that you have a suspect solder joint somewhere. Possibly the ones to the brush holders since it affected running in both directions.
Sometimes fitting the body can move a wire and make the bad joint conduct again so it all comes to life.

I think I would leave it as it is and see how it goes. If at some point it stops again then try reflowing the solder joints (i.e. melt and add a bit of solder to the joints). At least you know all the individual components are ok.

I have a newer loco with the little pre reverser circuit that didn't work until I wiggled the circuit board. That must have a bad joint on it somewhere but it's ok for the moment so I'm ignoring it.

Enjoy your loco - it's a lovely one. I have one of those and also one of the later ones (3368). The later one has loads more detail and I suppose it is a wonderful model but bits of it are quite flimsy and it completely lacks the charm, solidity and sheer fun of the earlier one that you have.
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character and is more fun...... and I understand it!
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Offline Peter S  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2025 16:13:42(UTC)
Peter S

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Westfield, MA
I agree, the locomotive should run without the body and lights installed. Is it possible that the tabs for the lights are touching the chassis and shorting out.

3023 01ca.jpg
Peter
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Offline Bill L  
#8 Posted : 04 March 2025 22:37:59(UTC)
Bill L

United States   
Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 140
Location: California, Sonoma County
The 3023 and the 3024 are beautiful locos from the 1960s. The shell does not need to be on the chassis to run.
Since going digital with my Marklin 6021 controller (I do not have the MSs or the CSs), I converted the 3024 to digital several years >10 ago using the 60904 motor parts and the LokPilot Ver3. With default CV values, the 3024 with the LPV3 ran very well. I like these locos a lot. My father purchased the 3024 in the early 60s.

What is interesting is I tried to upgrade with the LPV4, and disappointingly, the default CV values in the LPV4 just did not work well with this loco. You could see the speed steps as the loco speeds up. These are abrupt speed changes. I tried manually changing the CV values, but couldn't find any good combination CV values (using the 6021, you need to use the "long method described by ESU". The 6021 only has 80 addresses.) Anyway, I changed it back to the LPV3 and it is running beautifully again. Half of my layout is M metal track, and half is K track.

I recall in the 60s, I think my father said the 3024 is a must-have.
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Offline analogmike  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2025 14:23:14(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: marklin81 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
If you verified voltage to the field, then I would isolate the field wires and check ohms through the field.
Mikey


Mikey, thanks for that idea. Let's pretend that I interpreted your advice correctly. Below outlines what I did to check resistance through the field.

I placed multimeter leads at the points shown in the diagram from service manual, where the field magnet red and black wires are soldered into the reversing solenoid:

service manual wiring.png

I measured resistance with multimeter across those points with no track voltage -- about 3 ohms. I then increased track voltage to about 7 volts and measured again -- again, 3 ohms (essentially no change).

As always, any feedback from forum members is appreciated.

Pat


Hello Pat,
There are 2 windings on the field. One for forward and the other for reverse. In order to check ohms correctly you must isolate the winding completely (unsolder) and use no voltage. Perhaps this can be helpful in the future.
Mikey

I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by analogmike
Offline marklin81  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2025 16:01:14(UTC)
marklin81

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Virginia
My thanks for the follow-up posts regarding this very nice locomotive. I was fortunate to find an example that was well cared for by the previous owner. Even the box looks like it just departed the Marklin factory [in March 1959].

As suggested by several, there is likely a loose soldering point, a brittle wire, or something is causing a short.

The troubleshooting guidance is appreciated. At some point, I'll look for any obvious shorts, especially near the lighting tabs. If needed, I'll touch up the solder points.

A question unrelated to troubleshooting this locomotive: what are the two cardboard pieces that were found inside the box (see photo)? The seller packaged the locomotive in a separate box, taking care to also wrap the locomotive box by itself. The pieces aren't torn from the insert and appear to help protect the locomotive while stored or shipped in the box.

IMG_20250305_094621720.jpg
Offline Peter S  
#11 Posted : 05 March 2025 18:24:37(UTC)
Peter S

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Westfield, MA
I was watching that auction too. That is a very nice locomotive you have, especially with the box being in excellent condition.
Peter
Offline marklin81  
#12 Posted : 05 March 2025 18:44:33(UTC)
marklin81

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by: Peter S Go to Quoted Post
I agree, the locomotive should run without the body and lights installed. Is it possible that the tabs for the lights are touching the chassis and shorting out.

3023 01ca.jpg


Peter's recommendation fixed the problem. The 3023 now operates even with the shell removed.

The tabs did make contact at both ends. It looks like a previous owner had bent the entire tab forward, as the radius at the top of the tab wasn't perfectly round (as in the photo he provided).

I inserted some folded paper behind each tab to isolate and the locomotive operated. Needle-nose pliers gently eased each tab away from the chassis. Lights work, locomotive works, all is good.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by marklin81
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