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Question BR220 3780 Diesel - Motor replacement compatible
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Offline Bob K  
#1 Posted : 18 February 2025 18:24:20(UTC)
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Bob K

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Georgia, Epworth
Hi everyone, the motor in my locomotive no longer works. The parts list indicates that the replacement motor is #E165841. Does anyone know, can I replace it with a #60944. They look similiar, but are they? Thanks so much, Bob
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Offline ktsolias  
#2 Posted : 20 February 2025 16:45:41(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 623
Location: Athens
Please which is the locomotive
Give us the catalog No
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Offline TrainIride  
#3 Posted : 20 February 2025 18:04:10(UTC)
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TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,059
Location: FRANCE
Hi Bob,

#60944 is a conversion kit for locomotives equipped with a LFCM motor (large flat collector motor)

I think it is not for your 3780 locomotive which must have already a five poles DCM motor (Drum collector motor).
And I think you need #60941 instead.

But are your sure this is the motor that fails and not the decoder ?

Best Regards
Joël
Marklin HO - M track & C track - Analog mode - https://www.marklin-users.net/TrainIride - my channel : https://www.youtube.com/user/2mes2mains
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Offline Bob K  
#4 Posted : 20 February 2025 20:26:09(UTC)
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Bob K

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Georgia, Epworth
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Bob,

#60944 is a conversion kit for locomotives equipped with a LFCM motor (large flat collector motor)

I think it is not for your 3780 locomotive which must have already a five poles DCM motor (Drum collector motor).
And I think you need #60941 instead.

But are your sure this is the motor that fails and not the decoder ?

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline Bob K  
#5 Posted : 20 February 2025 20:29:52(UTC)
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Bob K

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Georgia, Epworth
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Please which is the locomotive
Give us the catalog No


The loco number is 3780, thanks
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Offline Bob K  
#6 Posted : 20 February 2025 20:36:21(UTC)
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Bob K

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Georgia, Epworth
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Bob,

#60944 is a conversion kit for locomotives equipped with a LFCM motor (large flat collector motor)

I think it is not for your 3780 locomotive which must have already a five poles DCM motor (Drum collector motor).
And I think you need #60941 instead.

But are your sure this is the motor that fails and not the decoder ?

Best Regards
Joël


Hi Joel, my 3780 does have the five pole DCM.
When I give it power the armature barely turns and after several seconds starts to smoke.
I didn't think the decoder would cause that.
Thanks for your help, Bob
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Offline TrainIride  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2025 08:25:02(UTC)
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TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,059
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Bob K Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Bob,

#60944 is a conversion kit for locomotives equipped with a LFCM motor (large flat collector motor)

I think it is not for your 3780 locomotive which must have already a five poles DCM motor (Drum collector motor).
And I think you need #60941 instead.

But are your sure this is the motor that fails and not the decoder ?

Best Regards
Joël


Hi Joel, my 3780 does have the five pole DCM.
When I give it power the armature barely turns and after several seconds starts to smoke.
I didn't think the decoder would cause that.
Thanks for your help, Bob


Hi Bob,

so maybe it's only the #386820 5 pole armature to replace.
Check also the brushes. Take also care with too much oiling.

Best Regards
Joël
Marklin HO - M track & C track - Analog mode - https://www.marklin-users.net/TrainIride - my channel : https://www.youtube.com/user/2mes2mains
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Offline hxmiesa  
#8 Posted : 21 February 2025 14:03:54(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,587
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Bob K Go to Quoted Post
When I give it power the armature barely turns and after several seconds starts to smoke.

Normal for a diesel... ;-)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline 60904  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2025 18:34:01(UTC)
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60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by: Bob K Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Bob,

#60944 is a conversion kit for locomotives equipped with a LFCM motor (large flat collector motor)

I think it is not for your 3780 locomotive which must have already a five poles DCM motor (Drum collector motor).
And I think you need #60941 instead.

But are your sure this is the motor that fails and not the decoder ?

Best Regards
Joël


Hi Joel, my 3780 does have the five pole DCM.
When I give it power the armature barely turns and after several seconds starts to smoke.
I didn't think the decoder would cause that.
Thanks for your help, Bob


Take the motor apart and clean everything. Do not put oil on the rotor.

Best regards
Martin
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Offline Paul59  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2025 09:59:14(UTC)
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Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: South East
If you have the motor apart then I would firstly thoroughly clean the armature particularly the commutator.

Then using a toothpick or something with a fine point clean the grooves between the segments on the commutator. These can get clogged with carbon dust and oil which can cause shorts.

Once it is all clean then it can be electrically tested... With your multimeter set to measure resistance check the resistance between adjacent segments on the commutator. Movong round one segment at a time you should end up with five readings (for a five pole armature). These readings should all be roughly the same.
If you don't have a multimeter I would recommend getting one - you only need a cheap basic one. They are a fairly essential thing to have in the toolkit.

Now measure the resistance between each of the five commutator segments and the shaft of the armature. There should be no continuity - i.e. infinate resistance.

If the armature passes these tests and looks ok visually (ie not burned) it is probably ok.

Now turn your attention to the motor shield and brushes. Thoroughly clean the shield paying attention to the two brush tubes. Make sure there is no oil or carbon 'gunge' in them. Also clean the brushes unless you are planning on putting new ones in.

Reasemble the motor and test it with a DC source. It may be wise to not have the wires from the decoder attached to it when doing this.

If the motor runs ok in both directions then apply just a small drop of oil to each of the bearings. This is particularly important on the side with the brushes since you don't want any oil to find it's way onto the brushes or the commutator.

If the motor now works ok you can turn your attention to the decoder.

I have found that over oiling of the bearing on the brushes side of the armature is quite a common cause of this sort of problem.

Good luck
Paul
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character and is more fun...... and I understand it!
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