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60760 Decoder no lights w/Delta
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#1 Posted : 26 June 2024 02:12:05(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Hi all, I just put a 60760 into my Delta 3000. It all works great, nice at slow speeds, great with inclines. Was my first decoder install, wasn't bad at all. However, the headlights don't work with my 6604 Delta controller. They work fine in analog. How can I remedy this?

I'm probably going to pick up a 6021 control unit so I can tone down the the accel delay and top speed. Can I use that to "switch on" the headlights permanently so I can continue using my 6604? (the theme of this layout is "starter pack - plus")

Thanks all
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Offline mvd71  
#2 Posted : 26 June 2024 02:32:57(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,916
Location: Auckland,
Hi Brian,

To get the lights to work with the 6604 delta controller, it requires a modification to the controller. If there is someone on the forum who has the information on that it could be worth investigating.

Cheers…

Mike
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Offline Wolfram_Stn  
#3 Posted : 26 June 2024 08:30:03(UTC)
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Wolfram_Stn

France   
Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: Grand-Est, Alsace
Hello Brian,

the Delta Control 6604 (you control the trains with the transformer button) is not made for switching lights, so if you have decoders with "lights off" standard, it will be difficult. Either you have to open the box and work in it, which is not given to everyone, or you try to purchase a "Delta Control 4f", 66045, which has it's own speed button (so it will work as well with every 16V~-transformator) and a button for switching lights on and off.

The third option is to change your Delta Control in a MS2 but this is another price than te 66045. On the other hand you have plenty more options with a modern MS2 than with the Delta Control from Fred Flintstone's age.
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#4 Posted : 26 June 2024 16:31:46(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
I've tried searching for instructions to convert the 6604 to use the light function, but both links I've found are old and have been deleted.

I found a post here that says F1 is always on with the 6604. My 3000 only has front headlights, so I'm researching using the F1 function as the headlights. It looks like this post describes how to set up the F1 from the 60760 and this is helpful as a pinout of the 60760 and for some other stuff. You can read that last one in English using google translate.

Does anyone know whether the 6021 can be used to permanently turn the lights on, like setting the accel/braking delay? So I could turn them on with the 3021, then place the lok on the tracks controlled by the 6604 and still have the headlights enabled?
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 26 June 2024 21:32:19(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Brian_BR96 Go to Quoted Post
I found a post here that says F1 is always on with the 6604.
Nope.
That post says that F1 is always on with a Delta Station 6607.
But F1 is always off with a Delta Control 6604.
Both controllers are from Märklin, but behave differently.

The 60760 is a simple decoder and there is no way I can think of to always activate the headlights programmatically.
This can be done with any mfx decoder.

Note that the old thread is about F1 and not about F0 AKA Function.
You are looking for a way to permanently activate F0 in the decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#6 Posted : 26 June 2024 22:45:40(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
What? It says right in the post, "with a Delta Control 6604, Function cannot be switched (and is probably always off), but F1 is always on."

That's disappointing. If the 6604 doesn't allow F1 to be always on, and the information to modify the 6604 is so old it may as well be carved in stone, this 60760 may have been a waste of money
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 26 June 2024 23:07:30(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Brian_BR96 Go to Quoted Post
That's disappointing. If the 6604 doesn't allow F1 to be always on, and the information to modify the 6604 is so old it may as well be carved in stone, this 60760 may have been a waste of money
F0 can be controlled when you modify the 6604. F1 is always on with a 60901 decoder, but not necessarily with a 60760 decoder.
Headlights are F0, so discussion about F1 is pointless.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#8 Posted : 26 June 2024 23:23:49(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
How can I modify the 6604 to allow control of F0?
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 26 June 2024 23:34:53(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
I found this old picture on my hard disk:
deltaco1.gif

T0 is the switch that turns F0 off while T1 is the switch that turns F0 on.
The other modifications give the Delta Control more loco addresses and are not relevant for the headlights.

Locate the 40pin Single Chip Computer (80C51) on the board.
To control the function-output of a c80 Decoder use pushbuttons to connect PIN 26 (ON) and 25 (OFF) to ground.

I think the connection from pin 20 to pin 27 is for the extended address range, but I'm not sure.
I never made the modification and take no responsibility.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#10 Posted : 27 June 2024 00:13:27(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Okay, thank you so much for posting that. I will take the 6604 apart and figure it out.
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#11 Posted : 27 June 2024 00:59:36(UTC)
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Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
It works!!!

Just to clarify for completeness, the picture is a bit misleading in the way it implies the pinout of the chip. I looked up a datasheet and found the correct placement of the 25 & 26 pins.

As you can see from the back, the pins of about 32-39 are all connected (to earth?) so they can't be isolated. My finger is near pin 1
UserPostedImage

I soldered straight to the legs like the factory did with the capacitor from pins 20 to 40
UserPostedImage

And used an on/off/on toggle switch. I played around with it for a bit and the switch really just needs to be an on/on variety. I'll mount it to the box and get it back together!
UserPostedImage

I just had to solder the blue and green of pins 25 and 26, as well as the brown (black in my case) of pin 20. Pin 27 was not needed
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Brian_BR96
Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 27 June 2024 06:31:08(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,916
Location: Auckland,
Well done! I’m really glad that has worked out for you.

And thank you Tom for digging out the diagram I didn’t have.

Cheers….

Mike
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
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