Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Butselboy  
#1 Posted : 15 May 2024 11:27:00(UTC)
Butselboy

Belgium   
Joined: 19/04/2024(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, Brussels
I am using an (distorted) oval, that is divided into 4 blocks. Each block is secured by a hobby signal 74391 of Marklin but the signals are connectet to a m84 decoder by the blue wires only - the track of the signal is not isolated and there is no connection of the red wire of the signal to the B-rail. The signals therefor have only a decorative function.
Each block has three contact tracks that are positioned in the following way: one just after the signal, one in the middle of the block section, and one at the end of the block. In this way, there are 12 contact tracks connected to a S88 AC that is connected to the CS3+ station.

The train directions are counter clockwise.

I have created several events that controll the signals (red of green), triggered by the appropirate contact tracks. This was all tested and it works very well.
Here are some illustrations to make things clear.
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

I also have created 4 events in order to controll the train velocity by using brake macro's. I have made this event for a steam locomotive. Those events regulate the speed in function of the position of the signals ahead and they are triggered by an appropriate contact track. Here is an example:
UserPostedImage
When the steam locomotive hits the K1 contact track, the turnout W3 is turned straight and the event then is controlled by the position (red/green) of the signal S2. If the signal is green, the loc keeps driving. If the signal is red, the braking macro is activated: the speed of the train is lowered to 64 km/h when it hits the contact track K2 and it stops at the contact track K3. In the case that the train should not brake at K3 and slippes into K4, the whole system is turned off for security reasons.
This was all tested by controlling the signal manualy and it works perfect.

When I put a second locomotive ahead on the tracks, this locomotive controlls the signals and the whole process works again as espected. As a result the steam locomotive can never hit the other locomotive and collisions are hereby prevented. So far the good news.

But when I try to create similar events for the second locomotive, all things go wrong. Probably it is caused by the fact that both locomotives trigger the brake macros, one for the other and vice versa.
How can this problem be solved?

Thanks,

Jos

Edited by moderator 15 May 2024 22:22:09(UTC)  | Reason: Rotate images

Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 15 May 2024 13:10:45(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I think there are two aspects you may wish to incorporate

1) some means to virtually track a locomotive as it moves around the blocks and yards
2) the concept of "inheritance/override" of a Loco

for tracking, you may have a preference , I make use of the CS3s virtual sensors and a number of IFs

Inheritance/override is where you have an Event that is initially set up (designed) using a dummy loco placeholder.
If you run the event directly, the subsequent tasks are actioned on that dummy loco
HOWEVER
If you call the event from a function of another loco, then the events target loco will inherit the ID of the calling loco.

Thus by tracking a loco around the layout, when it triggers the exit sensor when leaving a previous block, it will "prime" the block/brake event it is about to enter with its own ID.


The CS3 has a function where you can post a locos name against a sensor or signal
It you be nice if there was a way to "read" this ID and use it directly. At this point I have not worked out if that is possible, wuld love to here if someone has cracked this easter egg from Maerklin
Peter
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Butselboy  
#3 Posted : 29 September 2024 21:48:21(UTC)
Butselboy

Belgium   
Joined: 19/04/2024(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, Brussels
The problem is that a train-specific event (A) is triggered by an input from a S88 device - the input been generated as a result of a massdetection-pulse in a contactrail. But every time the conctactrail is activated by any loc, the event (A) will be executed, independently of the position of the loc where it was originally designed for.
So, generally spoken, I am searching for a way to start a train-specific event that it is triggered by a massdetection pulse, generated by that train only (and not by any other train).
Who can help me?

Jos
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 30 September 2024 01:01:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,562
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jos
Here, a Digital operator using a CS3 and Rocrail from France. I started using the CS2 and then CS3 memory / events fonctions and now I use Rocrail since 10 years.
I think that to-date, the CS3 has no real tools to manage / update the location of each train in a way usable for medium to large layouts.
It seems that Märklin is working on this but the hurdles are the small screen and small processing power compared with those of a PC.
In softwares like Rocrail (RR) there are some mechanism to help:
- you indicate where each loco is located (only once at first use)
- RR is in charge to move trains (a) preparing the route - checking no interference with other validated routes (b) reserving the route and all related track pieces to avoid collisions, (c) start the train, (d) when the train arrives at the destination block, slow down the speed, update the trains position to the new arrival block, free the origin block and the route and track pieces so that they can be used by other trains
- because RR knows the location of each train, exactly like what you wish Jos, when the train is detected at the destination block, if it must stop or change speed, it will simply send digital commands to the locos without requiring any interruption of power in front of signals.

NOTE: When above I mention RR, it is just an example and surely other train control softwares do the same. So please don't get angry at me

There are many benefits to this approach (that could appear maybe on the CS3 or CS4 later):
- simplified wiring (no need to have insulated stop section ahead of a signal)
- the loco can be anywhere in the train (front or rear or in the middle) and still the train will stop at the right place without calling for special train wiring, slider inversion, etc
- the signals are NOT needed anymore except for cosmetic reasons (nice in shadow stations and other hidden zones
- RR can propose three modes of operation (aquarium mode), schedule mode, manual mode
- bi-directional block and lines are available without any complication whatsoever

And the present CS3?
- as mentionned above, there are tricks to follow a loco in a layout so that the CS3 remember which loco to stop or start. It can be using a real turnout position or a virtual one but this is good only for 2 or 3 locos not many more I think

Just my opinion
Cheers
Jean
PS: I have no financial interest with RR just saying that using your laptop and a CAT5 or CAT6 cable between it and the CS3 and you are in business. With RR you have full access to all possibilities and you pay (help the team) the amount you wish when you wish. So you may start now (costed me 5€ for the cable and thats it although it is fair to donate to RR if you are satisfied.
Here is a flavour of what you can do with it (full automatic operation, mixing the aquarium mode and the schedule mode

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Tie  
#5 Posted : 07 October 2024 20:31:44(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
I assume JJB is right. I have speculated a lot around this. I think to solve this You need to outhink the traincontrollers. Actually the computers (traincontrollers) neither does not know where the trains are, they just know where they send them and expect that when a contact is triggered it is done by the train it sent there.
For a few trains it is possible to write the events in cs3 for each train like you want…. I have managed this with 5 trains….
To see where a train actually is you would need some kind of feedback that is specific for each train. In theory let say a magnet at a spesial hight above the rails in each loco( each train its own high above the rail) and a corresponding contacts around the layout camoflaged in fences or somthing at same hight. Then only a specific loco would activate the contact…. Bu too complicated to make work in practical… at least for me. But I still look for simpler solutions😓
Regards
Thor
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 07 October 2024 21:49:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,562
Location: Paris, France
Hi Tie
Originally Posted by: Tie Go to Quoted Post
To see where a train actually is you would need some kind of feedback that is specific for each train.
.
This is not quite correct. You may see Rocrail and others as a shift register: sensors are conventional and have the only capability to detect that A TRAIN is there (not which one but because IT IS EXPECTING a specific train it is almost as if..) BUT:
- train control s/w (TCS like Rocrail) must be told ONCE which train is where (on which block) and then the TCS updates the ,location of each train.
This is why when a train arrives at its destination block, if the signal is red, the TCS knows to which loco it needs to send a stop command
- when the TCS sends a train to another block, then the TCS detects when the train arrives in the new block and updates the train position (making the previous block free for other trains
- on a TCS you must enter your whole layout (on one page or multiple pages). The TCS now is able to see what track pieces are used and in which position AND to reserve them (No other train can use those track pieces until the train has reached its destination.
- A ROUTER on the TCS, designs the routes and the position of each needed track piece.

I am far from having described a TCS but we can see that the CS3 with its present update is very far from having all these features
Cheers
Jean
Offline Tie  
#7 Posted : 07 October 2024 21:59:15(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
I fully agree JJB. And that was what I tried to explain also. But what if: a turnout lock (do not swich as told… or something…) then the traincontrollers might misinterprete…
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 07 October 2024 22:03:41(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,562
Location: Paris, France
If there is a turnout failure, then the train is diected to another track and most of the time a GHOST train (an other, non-expected sensor is triggered) is detected causing the power to switch-off to avoid collision.
Jean
Offline BenP  
#9 Posted : 08 October 2024 06:03:19(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 480
Location: USA
Originally Posted by: Butselboy Go to Quoted Post
The problem is that a train-specific event (A) is triggered by an input from a S88 device - the input been generated as a result of a massdetection-pulse in a contactrail. But every time the conctactrail is activated by any loc, the event (A) will be executed, independently of the position of the loc where it was originally designed for.
So, generally spoken, I am searching for a way to start a train-specific event that it is triggered by a massdetection pulse, generated by that train only (and not by any other train).
Who can help me?

Jos


CS3 does not, to my knowledge, recognize which train triggers an event. A triggered event, however, can instruct a specific train function, but wherever that train is on the layout. You need pc software to track and remember train positions and actions.
Ben
Digital M track layout with vintage rolling stock and accessories controlled by CS3+Rocrail; small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BenP
Users browsing this topic
Guest (5)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2025, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.361 seconds.