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Offline marklin61  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2024 04:16:33(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
To all you experts out there,

I need some advice on a new problem that I have encountered while adding a new mfx loco (39498) to my layout.
Essentially this loco behaves as in should and has no problem registering with my updated cs3 ( now running 2.52). However I have one of my booster sections controlling a 7286 turntable and bridge section in combination with a Dec-TT decoder from Littfinski. Up to this point I have never had an issue sending commands to other locos while on the bridge deck. When the 39498 loco hits the centre bridge of the turntable it becomes completely unresponsive to any commands sent to it, and I have to push it off the bridge section before it starts up again (, although it can travel over the bridge deck happily). All my other locomotives ( including other mfx locos )work without a hitch and respond accordingly.
Outside of the turntable, this locomotive runs beautifully and doesn’t miss a beat.!
I have tried deleting the loco and re- registering and rebooting several times to no avail. I was wondering if a CV setting might be problem? But what CV..? I have upgraded the locos firmware and factory defaulted it, twice.!
If anyone has any ideas then it would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Steve
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2024 10:58:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,126
Location: Paris, France
Hello Steve
No expert here, sorry.
To make a long story short, you want to check:
- if the bridge of the TT is powered with digital signal? (Are other locos responding?
- if the booster-powered section control your loco 39498 and other digital locos?
- if the Booster is up-to-date with its updates and well connected to the CS3? (reports current, green tag related to updates, etc

Cheers
Jean
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2024 11:08:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
When you start turnout table do locomotive have still contact on the bridge? Could be fault at pick up shoe or wheel contact.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline marklin61  
#4 Posted : 06 March 2024 12:30:06(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Just for clarity. The loco can run through the bridge without any
loss of power. If I stop the locomotive at the centre of the bridge and issue any command the loco becomes unresponsive. I have to manually push the loco off the bridge… This is the only loco (39498) behaving like this. All other locos work on the turntable without any kind of problem… Yes all my boosters ( of which there are 8) have the latest firmware installed. From memory the version is 3.85…
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 06 March 2024 13:47:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
When your loco stand on the bridge i belive You have bad contact on the bridge on a point. Clean the bridge by use cloth.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 06 March 2024 17:26:32(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklin61 Go to Quoted Post
Just for clarity. The loco can run through the bridge without any
loss of power. If I stop the locomotive at the centre of the bridge and issue any command the loco becomes unresponsive. I have to manually push the loco off the bridge… This is the only loco (39498) behaving like this. All other locos work on the turntable without any kind of problem… Yes all my boosters ( of which there are 8) have the latest firmware installed. From memory the version is 3.85…


I suspect this is related to the material the center rail of the bridge is made of, and the way it is mounted. I'm wondering if the pickup shoe has insufficient pressure to break through any oxide of the center rail. this would match the description of being able to run through, but not working if you stop.

Do the headlights go out immediately you stop, or after the bridge starts to turn?

Offline marklin61  
#7 Posted : 06 March 2024 20:49:23(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Thanks KiwiAlan,
While the loco is stationary in the centre of the turntable all functions that where operating prior to entry, remain in that condition . In this case, lights are on but sending a off command the loco just ignores it..all commands are ignored while parked up on the bridge..cannot reverse, and cannot add speed steps…totally unresponsive.!
I don’t believe it’s a contact issue as pushing the loco ( manually) off the deck till it touches the metal material either side of the turntable the loco will respond as normal.
I think I am going to have to rewire the turntable bridge and power the centre deck with a different power feed , while keeping the turntable decoder as it currently configured.
Just very weird that only this loco is having problems while all others ( approx 40 other locos) operate without a hitch..!!!
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#8 Posted : 06 March 2024 21:51:45(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Hi Steve,

Interesting problem. It sounds like the quality of the underlying digital transmission protocol is somehow deteriorated, and for some reason the decoder in the 39498 locomotive is more sensitive to the issue than those in your other locomotives, so that it cannot pick up the protocol packets conveying commands. If so, then rewiring the bridge should be a good idea.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline torle  
#9 Posted : 06 March 2024 23:51:38(UTC)
torle

United States   
Joined: 05/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Atlanta, GA
Here is a little known DCC fact that may explain your situation:

Could it be that you have accidentally reversed the phase of the digital voltage to the bridge - eg: black (or brown) to the central rail on the bridge and red to the running rails. You'd think that there would be a short when the loco crosses over from the feeder track onto the TT bridge. But that apparently is not the case.

While the DCC voltage (mfx or the old mm) is theoretically AC it is offset from 0 voltage by about 9 volts DC. I have read and also come across decoders that are sensitive to this offset. If it's backward, there would still be power on the bridges center rail and the light of the loco will remain on. But all commands will be ignored. The old K83's or K84's don't seem to care but an older ESU decoder in one of my Roco loks is. Took me month's to figure that one out (even bought an oscilloscope because of it).

Ideally the track power to the TT bridge should be wired to the TT feeder track power.

Just my 5 cents worth.

-=tom=-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by torle
Offline marklin61  
#10 Posted : 07 March 2024 11:33:33(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Hi All,
Well, after a late night last evening I finally resolve this issue... but don't ask me why..!!! having spent most of the day troubleshooting, I decided (only by chance) to replace the booster in question from a 60174 with a spare I ad (which was a 60175) and the problem seem to resolve itself. I had to upgrade the new booster to 3.85 software version, the same as the replaced 60174 booster. Why this solved the problem I have no idea, keen for anyone to explain, as this had me completely bamboozle.! What has changed between the 60174 and the newer 60175... besides colour.!?
Anyway now off to enjoy running this beautiful 39498 Albatross..!

Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by marklin61
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