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Offline Rocca  
#1 Posted : 02 March 2024 09:29:14(UTC)
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Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 627
Dear Märklin friends,
I've just purchased in E-bay two of these old Märklin Signal 445. My question is: for switching them eletrically what have I to connect to, please?
Best regards
Stefano


20240302_091444.jpg20240302_091516.jpg20240302_091533.jpg20240302_091446.jpg
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 02 March 2024 11:03:18(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,376
Location: Michigan, Troy
An analog blue or newer grey momentary contact button control box. The yellow wire is usually or the lights. The others are ground and power feed. Follow the basic Marklin handbook for proper connections, and or the manual for the box.This one is or looks like it is already connected to the track feed.
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Offline Rocca  
#3 Posted : 02 March 2024 11:15:20(UTC)
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Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 627

Dear Märklinist5999,
I do agree with you: it looks it is already connected to the track feed. I'ven't yet checked it. But, as you can see, there are only 2 wires: 1 yellow for the light and one black for the ground. So, would I've to connect the track to the control box?
Anyway, thanks a lot for the suggestions. Apparently in the Märklin Handbook I can't find anything on this topic.
Best regards
Stefano





Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
An analog blue or newer grey momentary contact button control box. The yellow wire is usually or the lights. The others are ground and power feed. Follow the basic Marklin handbook for proper connections, and or the manual for the box.This one is or looks like it is already connected to the track feed.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 02 March 2024 11:25:31(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,331
Location: Paris, France
Hi Stefano
It seems you have purchased the first generation of these signals (only one solenoid)
In this case:
- the black wire goes to the 20 VAC through the one button controller
- the yellow wire goes to the 16 VAC for the bulb
- the 2 female plugs on the track are for the optional catenary stop section control

In the other case (2 Solenoids) there is:
- two blue wires for the solenoids (red and green plug)
- one yellow wire for the bulb (16 VAC)

In both cases ( One or 2 solenoids) a special rail (delivered with the signal) or a paper insulator must be used to form the start of the insulated stop section.

Here are some of mine
Sans titre.png

Around 1951-1952 Märklin changed from one solenoid to 2 solenoids allowing a real block system to be created.
This goes also for switches and double slip switches.

Here is the innard of the one-solenoid operation
One-Solenoid System.png
Cheers
Jean
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Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 02 March 2024 11:32:01(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,376
Location: Michigan, Troy
Stefano, look at the bottom of the track. If you can see the wire connectors, the one from the center rail is the power feed. Or if the center rail connects to one of the jacks on the track bed side. The other is the ground. The control box will get power from the center rail and a ground wire.If the box has a yellow jack, the yellow wire plugs in there, so the light remains lit. You don't want steady contact to the solenoid as it will burn out. Match the brown and red wires to the box as you would from a transformer.
I hope this helps you.
Michelli (Mike)
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Offline PacoM  
#6 Posted : 10 March 2024 22:00:58(UTC)
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PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 63
NOTE: EDITED after JohnJeanB´s REMARKS. Please, IGNORE the sentences in italics.
Dear colleagues.

I can see that the track shown by Rocca is not identical to the one shown by JohnJeanB. The central rail in the first one is cut in the middle to form two pieces, isolated, and each one of those two pieces is sureley connected to one of the side sockets.
I can find only one explanation:

- The yellow wire should be directly connected to the transformer (18 V AC).
- The black wire to ground, through a button (not a switch).
When you press the button for a short moment, the solenoid will alternatively raise and lower the arm and change the light between red and green. When arm is up (and the light is seen green), the voltage present at one of the parts of the track will pass to the other and the train will go on running.
On the other hand, the arm down (red ligth) means that the other end of the track is receiving no voltage and the train will stop.
As JohnJeanB has pointed out, the 2 female plugs on the track are for the optional catenary stop section control, when the voltage is taken fron the catenary instead of the central rail.
I hope I am not misleading you.
Regards
Paco

Edited by moderator 11 March 2024 05:42:39(UTC)  | Reason: Disabled Cyan for Italics - too hard to read - Mod.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 10 March 2024 22:48:33(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,331
Location: Paris, France
Hi Paco and you all.
The signal shown by Stefano is IDENTICAL to mine (the main signals in the rear, not the advance signals) WITH TWO EXCEPTIONS:
- mine have 2 coils with two blue wires and Stefano's has ONE COIL and one BLACK wire (20VAC needed) to power it.
- mine has 2 extra female plugs to drive the advance signal (so FOUR female plugs on the side of the rail while Stefano's has only TWO female plugs for catenary).

On Stefano's signal, the yellow wire is to be connected to the 16 VAC and the black wire is to be connected to the 20 VAC though a one-button control unit. Remember with these units, no contact track was possible so no block system (because of ONE COIL and because the COIL RETURN was to the ground)

On both signals, the third rail is cut in the middle and the signal power the stop section.
On both signals (Stefano's and mine) two plugs are reserved to interrupt the stop section of the overhead (catenary) and IN NO WAY connected to the third rail.

Cheers
Jean

PS It is better to have these signals to describe them
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Offline PacoM  
#8 Posted : 10 March 2024 22:54:20(UTC)
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PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 63
You are right, I am always glad to learn, it is one of the advantages of consulting the forum.
Just one question. Could you please draw the connections to 16V and 20V that you mention? It is sometthing I do not suceed to understand.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 11 March 2024 11:01:53(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,331
Location: Paris, France
Hi Paco

Here you are
Sans titre.png
In 1950 the transformers would have:
- a brown socket for ground
- a red socket for B (Bahn= train) 14VAC
- a yellow socket for L (Licht= light) 16VAC
- a green socket for solenoids 20VAC
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline PacoM  
#10 Posted : 11 March 2024 12:42:12(UTC)
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PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 63
Merci, Jean, I was not aware of the specifications of those old transformers. Mine are the blue ones that belong to the sixties, 16VAC at 220V, nearly 18 at 240. I use one of those old voltage stabilizers for television sets to keep the output voltage at the proper level, in order to prevent damage to decoders of locomotives working in analogue mode.
Regards
Paco
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