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Offline fabstar68  
#1 Posted : 24 February 2024 18:56:30(UTC)
fabstar68

Italy   
Joined: 14/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Milan
hi all,

as per title, and please bear with me i am a novice, i need some help in understanding why on several track positions (always the same) my loco (a marklin digital starter set, red diesel locomotive) stops at low speed. i need to push it a little to make it continue. i tried everything, the rails and the central AC rail are perfecly cleaned, the loco wheels and central plate are clean too. If i switch the track piece where there is a stop point with another identical one, it works ok..... but since there are many of those stop points, i cannot just change all the track pieces, surely there is something that i am missing and need advice for. I checked with a voltmeter all the rails and all the central junctions, they all work flawlessly. even when the loco stops, i check the voltage directly on wheels and the centrale plate while it is stopped, and the current is there.... but the loco does not move. dead stopped. lights off. i have only one loco so i cannot check if the problem is the loco, but judging by the fact that the stop points are always the same on the track, i'd be more inclined to think that there is a problem with the track piece, but i don't know what else to check.

thanks

Fab
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Offline RudiC  
#2 Posted : 24 February 2024 19:18:23(UTC)
RudiC

Germany   
Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
I guess it is C- track? Curved or straight? Going forward and / or backwards? Did you reverse the loco? Is it exactly the identical point of track (forward and backward) or just somewhere on the track piece? Does the problem move with the piece of track that you switched, or are both (the replacement and the original one placed somewhere else) OK after switching, as you write? You say voltage is present within the loco, at which points did you take the measurement?
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 24 February 2024 19:43:49(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Bonsoir Fab
Avec les voies Märklin, tout le monde nettoie les rails mais les picots en tole rouillent bien et cela ne se voit pas (surtout à coté des rails en acier inox).
Pour les blocages sévère je conseille d'utiliser de l'abrasif de carrosserie grade 1500 dans l'idéal.
Finir avec une planchette de bois pour polir et oter les micro-rayures causées par l'abrasif. Attention pas de "papier de verre" ou d'abrasif à grain plus grossier car on ferait des sillons dans lesquels la poussière et la crème de ruban de traction - huille viendrait bien se rappeller à nos soins.
Amicalement
Jean

Can we have a translation please - forum being an English language forum and all. Thanks /BDNZ

Edited by moderator 26 February 2024 16:17:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline fabstar68  
#4 Posted : 24 February 2024 20:39:01(UTC)
fabstar68

Italy   
Joined: 14/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Milan
thank you all for your interventions,

the material is all new, we are talking a couple months, and used very little (i am slowly building my layout). it's c-track. the problem arises in both straights and curves. sometimes when the weels are on the joints between two track pieces, but mostly on random points. but if i manually turn the loco 180°, the things change about the stop points. So i guess it's something related to the central plate. in effect, when the loco stops itself (no lights), if i take the voltage to the wheels and any central point elsewhere, there is current. on the other hand, if i take the measure between a rail and the central place, there is no current. if i push down with a screwdriver the plate a bit, it starts. it's as if the plate doesn't push down with enough force. the tracks have been painted by me, and cleaned using pure alchool. I will try to clean the central rail better as JohnjeanB suggested and see how it goes, thanks again.
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Offline RudiC  
#5 Posted : 24 February 2024 20:56:54(UTC)
RudiC

Germany   
Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
Ahhh - what you name the "central plate" seems to be what is called the "pickup shoe", or "slider", or "ski" elsewhere. You could increase the pressure of it by carefully slightly bending down the bronze holding / guiding springs by not more than a millimeter or two. Use a screwdriver or small flat pliers.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 24 February 2024 21:37:37(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Fab, New rails are known to give small issues at start. Why? not sure but when you unbox a starter set you have to let it run to have a perfect operation
Cheers
Jean
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Offline marklinist5999  
#7 Posted : 25 February 2024 11:03:05(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
I have only experienced this since the sets with smp power supply not older ones. Older locomotives with the new, yes.
Never with the 6627, or the 6021 controller and the 6001 transformer.
I think smp power supply equiped audio amplifiers are also affected by the lower amperage switching. Vintage output and new era are not equal. Vintage class A amps had large heat making transformers. Full Rich low distortion sound at lower loudness volume gain.Transistor switching began above 25% gain, or higher. Modern class AB, C and D type amps have switching across the entire gain spectrum. Much cooler operation especially at lower listening levels, but they require more gain to equal vintage ones.
Just my two cents worth. Perhaps the 6021 was overbuilt to handle heat, having the substantial heat sink on the rear. I have never felt any heat generated by it.
Offline rhfil  
#8 Posted : 25 February 2024 16:20:10(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 427
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Are the spots where it happens also where there are wires under the tracks? Some sliders are too short so a slight rise in the tracks resulting from there being a wire underneath cause the slider to lose contact or make only slight contact with the center rails. I have a T3 with the same problem.
Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 25 February 2024 17:39:59(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Usually after getting the trains to complete a few runs, they run better. Maybe the decoders and motors warm up.
Offline fabstar68  
#10 Posted : 26 February 2024 14:22:08(UTC)
fabstar68

Italy   
Joined: 14/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Milan
i guess my starter pack got a lot of dust on the shelf before being shipped to me, because my loco has code 36645 (not produced anymore by a long time on marklin site), and it uses the pick up shoes E206370 , which look quite different from the actual 7164 pick up shoe. i read that the the actual one is quite good, but judging from the images they don't seem compatible. anyway, i will do all the suggestions that i got in this thread and see what i get.

i was wondering if i could add a pick up shoe on the other wheels bank too, in order to have more chances to get current. it would seem possible, seeing the figure. maybe i will give it a try too.

thanks again to everyone
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 26 February 2024 16:13:32(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Try cleaning the problem track areas with Electrical Contact Cleaner which I find often helps. Using ISO at anything other than 99% proof is not good as it contains water, so you will effectively be pouring water all over your tracks.

You've focused on the pickup shoe contact, but I would also check the grounding connection in your loco - clean the loco's wheels. Also, how many rubber tyres does the loco have, and are the wheels with tyres also providing the rail ground as sometimes the tyres lift the wheels off the track enough to provide intermittent grounding. Worst case you might have to wire up another grounding point on the loco's chassis.
Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 26 February 2024 16:26:48(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
You said you painted the track could this cause the problem. When you press down on the loco do the lights come on and the loco moves. If you feel you might need a second loco this would show if it is the track or the loco that has the problem. You could disconnect the track until you have a line that does not give a problem then add on track part one at a time unitl you find the track part that stops the loco.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline fabstar68  
#13 Posted : 26 February 2024 16:40:52(UTC)
fabstar68

Italy   
Joined: 14/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Milan
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Try cleaning the problem track areas with Electrical Contact Cleaner which I find often helps. Using ISO at anything other than 99% proof is not good as it contains water, so you will effectively be pouring water all over your tracks.

You've focused on the pickup shoe contact, but I would also check the grounding connection in your loco - clean the loco's wheels. Also, how many rubber tyres does the loco have, and are the wheels with tyres also providing the rail ground as sometimes the tyres lift the wheels off the track enough to provide intermittent grounding. Worst case you might have to wire up another grounding point on the loco's chassis.


hi,
there are 2 rubber tyres in total, they are all in the 4 wheels bank that does not have the pick up shoe (one per side). But i am sure the problem is not on the ground, because when the locomotive stops, lights off, if i take the measure of the current with any central point and any of the wheels, there is always current. i cleaned the central points with 99% ISO, so i don't think that a contact cleaner would help more, but i will try of course. and yes, if i push down with a flat screwdriver the shoe just a tiny bit, the loco restarts.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 26 February 2024 19:10:12(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: fabstar68 Go to Quoted Post
...if i push down with a flat screwdriver the shoe just a tiny bit, the loco restarts.


I would check the track pieces. It is possible that the centre studs are not pushed right home in the plastic track bed and so just miss the pickup shoe. Push on the centre studs from underneath the track on all the track pieces. If this has been in storage for a few years then it is possible that thermal cycling while in storage has worked the centre studs down - a small possibility, I know, but something has caused some creep somewhere.

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