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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 09 February 2024 19:45:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
It is confirm that MiWuLa did stop use Märklin trains due to the problems with the Märklins tracks.
MiWuLa shall replacement with Roco line tracks instead and use 2 rail trains.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tRmcX5EL4
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Paul187  
#2 Posted : 09 February 2024 20:49:57(UTC)
Paul187

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: New Jersey
Sounds like a lot of work for Miniature Wunderland for wear and tear. I don't think I will be putting 10,000-12,000 plus hours on my Marklin layout any time soon
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Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2024 22:07:07(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Actually, it is closer to 750,000 hours assuming the trains ran for 12 hours per day over 25 years.
Adrian
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2024 22:18:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
This is old news. It was already announced early in 2023 that MiWuLa would be replacing their K track with 2 rail DC as the centre rail studs were worn down by almost constant use.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline rbw993  
#5 Posted : 10 February 2024 00:50:17(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 956
So I'll need to re[place my Marklin track in say, 2,000 years? Damn!

Roger
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Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 10 February 2024 01:20:00(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
So I'll need to re[place my Marklin track in say, 2,000 years? Damn!

Roger


Yep.. They don't make them like they used to.. LOL
Adrian
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 10 February 2024 02:25:55(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
They should be replacing their 2 rail track with 3 rail track - much more reliable running...

As for those pesky return loops...
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 10 February 2024 06:03:58(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
They should be replacing their 2 rail track with 3 rail track - much more reliable running...

As for those pesky return loops...


Why?
There are electronic for the digital loops that fix problem.
By the way...it has to do with the contacts on the tracks and they found out 2-rail do work better with the feedback module.
I am not sure what type of manufacture they use.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2024 06:08:42(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
If you did watch the video you did noticed that there was lot of soot trail on the Helix loops?
That is the result of the oxid with the pickup shoes!
Well you need lot of work to clean the tracks. LOL
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#10 Posted : 10 February 2024 14:05:35(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
So I'll need to replace my Marklin track in say, 2,000 years?Damn!

Roger


I still have 1947 years left in mine; I expect that to be enough LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline TrainIride  
#11 Posted : 10 February 2024 14:42:19(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,917
Location: FRANCE

This story is so amazing and surprising Confused Crying .

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 10 February 2024 19:14:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

This story is so amazing and surprising Confused Crying .

Best Regards
Joël


It is for Goofy ...

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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 11 February 2024 18:55:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Old news. They replaced the three-rail tracks with new three-rail tracks a few times already, because the Pukos were down.
Now they replace the three-rail tracks with two-rail tracks to eliminate the Puko problems for good.

MiWuLa is not the only exhibition layout that encountered problems due to worn off Pukos.

So for home layouts you may only have 200 years to 500 years, not 2000 years. Maybe less if you are using C track.
So there is time to make a plan, no need to panic.

And Goofy got rid of the Pukos several years ago.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline analogmike  
#14 Posted : 12 February 2024 22:44:45(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 741
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
You see, If they just used M track from day one, they wouldn't have this problem.
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#15 Posted : 13 February 2024 00:26:10(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Quote:
analogmike wrote: "You see, If they just used M track from day one, they wouldn't have this problem."


Love YES! Cool
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 13 February 2024 09:29:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
You see, If they just used M track from day one, they wouldn't have this problem.
Good joke.
I think they would have had the same problem. The pukos are made of tin-plate and they wear off over time. M track will not last 20 years under MiWuLa conditions.
M track does not have flex track, so with M track the MiWuLa would look quite different.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 13 February 2024 09:49:31(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I've been running my layout for 40 years now and it looks like I've got a few years left before replacing them, I wonder whether I can do this if I add this wish to my after life., its a pity God hasn't got an email address to reserve me a space in space or may be it is out of space and I have to secure some space in outer space., just thinking about it, spaces me out.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline analogmike  
#18 Posted : 13 February 2024 18:10:51(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 741
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA

M track does not have flex track, so with M track the MiWuLa would look quite different.



Yeah, It would have looked better!

I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 13 February 2024 22:47:02(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
So for home layouts you may only have 200 years to 500 years, not 2000 years. Maybe less if you are using C track.


Please clarify, do I have 147 years left, 447 years left or 1947 years left on my layout?

I need to know, I have to make plans LOL Laugh LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 13 February 2024 23:05:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Please clarify, do I have 147 years left, 447 years left or 1947 years left on my layout?
The answer is 42. Cool
You can get 84 if you run your trains half as often.

But seriously: slim turnouts probably fail earlier than regular turnouts.
There is speculation that harder sliders wear off the pukos more quickly. Maybe it helps to add brass strips to the sliders to reduce the wear of the pukos.
Longer tracks with fewer trains will increase the operation time of the layout.

Separate the outer rails and run two-rail locos to get more running times - can be done now, can be done later when the pukos are gone.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 14 February 2024 02:50:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
After how many years are 1:1 tracks replaced ?
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 14 February 2024 07:57:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
After how many years are 1:1 tracks replaced?
This depends on the load of the track. Rails come in different weights, mostly ranging from 49 kg/m to 60 kg/m in Germany, but I think there also are lighter versions, but probably also heavier ones.

Sources on the Internet state "20 years", "20 to 25 years", "30 to 60 years".
One source says that rails in sharp curves may need replacing every 2 years.

Turnouts at Cologne Central station are replaced frequently.

And millions of sleepers in Germany are at risk of becoming brittle and need to be replaced in the next few years.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline xxup  
#23 Posted : 14 February 2024 10:49:30(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Please clarify, do I have 147 years left, 447 years left or 1947 years left on my layout?
The answer is 42. Cool
Y...


That can't be right. That's the answer to the meaning of life.. Love
Adrian
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Offline rbw993  
#24 Posted : 14 February 2024 13:56:46(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 956
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Please clarify, do I have 147 years left, 447 years left or 1947 years left on my layout?
The answer is 42. Cool
Y...


That can't be right. That's the answer to the meaning of life.. Love


Yeah it could. Makes as much sense as this topic.

Roger
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Offline mjrallare  
#25 Posted : 14 February 2024 14:38:38(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
I guess this topic is about MiWuLa making a change from Märklin to Roco track. Our own (mostly) small layouts are hardly comparable to MiWuLa's. It's just a piece of news...
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Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 16 February 2024 18:50:26(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

This story is so amazing and surprising Confused Crying .

Best Regards
Joël


It is for Goofy ...



No it is for Märklinist.
You see and understand what it happens when you use Märklin tracks too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline David Dewar  
#27 Posted : 16 February 2024 21:07:54(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Goofy there is nothing wrong with using Marklin C track and it will outlive us on the forum. The track gives excellent running and like all tracks just needs to be kept clean.

Your coments while interesting means little to users of Marklin track as we dont run our railway 12 hours a day or maybe you do. Wunderland it completely different.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline mbarreto  
#28 Posted : 16 February 2024 22:06:34(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,265


About Miniature Wonderland, I was never there, although I have some plans to go there, but not this year.
From the movies I see, it seems really impressive: perfect or close to that.

I continue to thin that museum or layouts for the public should be in 0 or 1 gauge, this independent of the maiontenance they need to do their current H0 layouts.

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline Goofy  
#29 Posted : 17 February 2024 12:39:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Goofy there is nothing wrong with using Marklin C track and it will outlive us on the forum. The track gives excellent running and like all tracks just needs to be kept clean.

Your coments while interesting means little to users of Marklin track as we dont run our railway 12 hours a day or maybe you do. Wunderland it completely different.


Nope! Even C tracks give problems and some of the Märklin loco cause short circuits by pass over long turnouts. Wunderland in Hamburg start use two rail for some reason too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#30 Posted : 17 February 2024 14:14:13(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Miwula did bought home 500 metres tracks to build up new track layout to replacement K-layout and it cost much lesser than to buy Märklin tracks which are more expensive.
They did also said to improvement software feedback by use Roco line tracks.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 17 February 2024 14:31:31(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Goofy there is nothing wrong with using Marklin C track and it will outlive us on the forum. The track gives excellent running and like all tracks just needs to be kept clean.

Your coments while interesting means little to users of Marklin track as we dont run our railway 12 hours a day or maybe you do. Wunderland it completely different.


Nope! Even C tracks give problems and some of the Märklin loco cause short circuits by pass over long turnouts. Wunderland in Hamburg start use two rail for some reason too.


I have sleek C-track turnouts and never had any trouble with my Märklin, Roco, Hag or Jägerndorfer locos., make sure your slider is in the right position, I've got a tool which slightly cleans the middle pukos from oxidation and over 40 years it has slightly reduced the height, before I used to use more force to clean them., since I've insulated the garage the humidity/moisture is more or less gone.
I have no intention to follow Wunderland's decision to change to 2 rail, there is no need, no apparent problem, its just a decision a company took, would you shave of your beard after 40 years because some one else has done it., would you buy a tractor and sell your car because some one else bought a tractor, would you change your wife because some one else done it,
over the years I've found many problems with model trains and tracks but I've looked for the cause and fixed it., you can create problems by expressing problems and than spread the word, there are other problems as well and suddenly you've got a handful of problems which haven't existed before,

a good example is oiling: you oil your motor and gears = you drive your locos and the oil spreads onto the track and than onto the wheels, the dust and grime is a perfect mixture to get your tracks and wheels dirty, than you clean your tracks and wheels and you start the circus all over again., and you have to find the cause to fix the problem and the solution is not to start oiling it again., when we look at the history of Märklin locos, oiling was essential, this was 50 years ago and Märklin has done very little to overcome the problem and you can only fix a problem if you recognise there is a problem, and even if you are aware there is a problem you can ignore it and just keep on going like nothing has happened., if you enter the model train domain you should be aware of its good and and not so good moments, unless you are a total believer and have your blinkers on, you've lost the race already, nothing is perfect these days and unless you have some experience in dealing with problems you will send items back and make sure the problems other people have created will be rectified.,
you will find in general close inspections will always reveal the problem but it is up to you whether or not you are prepared to fix the problem or send the item back under guarantee.
We've got a heat wave in Western Australia at the moment and under that heat, trains could go off the rails (2), the government is looking for solutions

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline David Dewar  
#32 Posted : 17 February 2024 16:40:20(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Goofy there is nothing wrong with using Marklin C track and it will outlive us on the forum. The track gives excellent running and like all tracks just needs to be kept clean.

Your coments while interesting means little to users of Marklin track as we dont run our railway 12 hours a day or maybe you do. Wunderland it completely different.


Nope! Even C tracks give problems and some of the Märklin loco cause short circuits by pass over long turnouts. Wunderland in Hamburg start use two rail for some reason too.


I wonder why you are even on Marklin forum Goofy. You continually complain about their products. Marklin are not perfect but having used Hornby. Roco and other tracks I find C track to be as good and better than others. I had my first model rail at age 7 some 75 years ago and there is always something going wrong with any make but sorting it as John says is part of the hobby.
If the track you use is what you like then that is great but it does not mean other tracks are not good.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#33 Posted : 18 February 2024 00:55:59(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
What David said! ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Goofy  
#34 Posted : 18 February 2024 09:03:15(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post

I wonder why you are even on Marklin forum Goofy. You continually complain about their products. Marklin are not perfect but having used Hornby. Roco and other tracks I find C track to be as good and better than others. I had my first model rail at age 7 some 75 years ago and there is always something going wrong with any make but sorting it as John says is part of the hobby.
If the track you use is what you like then that is great but it does not mean other tracks are not good.


When MiWuLa decides to use Roco line there are always some reason by choice.
I am just present pro and cons which makes good deal for other to see problems too.
Just visit Youtube and you see a lot of Märklinist do something difference by present better solution.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline marklinist5999  
#35 Posted : 18 February 2024 15:20:32(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,140
Location: Michigan, Troy
We all know Goofy and none of us are perfect. Is there really any need to be condescending? Unless I know and can prove that I am absolutely correct, I say so. If I don't agree with a person I may say so, but that's it. Else I just don't reply and let it roll.
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Offline Harvey  
#36 Posted : 01 March 2024 03:13:26(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Curious, I understand they are replacing the tracks. But, are they replacing the locomotives (or converting them) and the rolling stock (or just the wheels)?

Harvey
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Offline Goofy  
#37 Posted : 01 March 2024 05:47:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: Harvey Go to Quoted Post
Curious, I understand they are replacing the tracks. But, are they replacing the locomotives (or converting them) and the rolling stock (or just the wheels)?

Harvey


For the wagons they changed out the wheels to the dc.
Roco ac locomotives can be easy change out wheels too but only few can be done.
ESU are multi locomotives and just pull off the pick up shoes and switch over to two rail.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Harvey  
#38 Posted : 01 March 2024 16:29:16(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Goofy,
Thanks
Harvey
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Offline river6109  
#39 Posted : 02 March 2024 08:29:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Looks to me a hell lot of work but they must make enough money they can afford the staff and materials to change it., they most probably have an open day and sell all their Märklin locos and rolling stock, I wouldn't buy any locos unless they are cheap whereas you can replace the motor, changing wheels on carriages ? I don't know about this, they most probably get good money for the carriages and just buy new ones (DC).,

I've reduced the amount of locos which have a pick up shoe, all my electric locos run from the overhead., we've already replace a lot of K-tracks with new ones, it wasn't so much the pukos but the copper connecting bits which over time have been oxidised and lost contact between the the 2 tracks

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline xxup  
#40 Posted : 02 March 2024 08:36:11(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
I bought a Swiss Cargo from them and it was perfect. My guess is that they replaced the slider and the motor before they sold it to me.
Adrian
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Offline Goofy  
#41 Posted : 02 March 2024 09:29:09(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Looks to me a hell lot of work but they must make enough money they can afford the staff and materials to change it., they most probably have an open day and sell all their Märklin locos and rolling stock, I wouldn't buy any locos unless they are cheap whereas you can replace the motor, changing wheels on carriages ? I don't know about this, they most probably get good money for the carriages and just buy new ones (DC).,

I've reduced the amount of locos which have a pick up shoe, all my electric locos run from the overhead., we've already replace a lot of K-tracks with new ones, it wasn't so much the pukos but the copper connecting bits which over time have been oxidised and lost contact between the the 2 tracks

John


Yes MiWuLa did also changed out wires to replacement with new wires.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline 1borna  
#42 Posted : 03 March 2024 20:11:42(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,353
Location: Hrvatska
You have to know that everything on Mi-Wu-La is driven for thousands of hours until the time comes when it is no longer worth repairing. Axle bearings on locomotives expand, on wagons they wear out. With hundreds and thousands of models, it is more advantageous to take a new one (with a big discount) and sell the old one for less than half the price.
We amateurs will be able to drive these old models for years to come because we only drive them occasionally.
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