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Offline TrainDick  
#1 Posted : 27 January 2024 17:48:20(UTC)
TrainDick

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Brighton
Hi All,

I've come across a very early Marklin 3600 signal unlike anything I have seen before. Cleaned up well & in good condition.

Please can someone confirm the wiring order required to remotely control the solenoid.

So far I have connected it to a power feeder track, the yellow wire connects to common & the brown wire to red track feed.

The green light can be manually switched to red by moving the solenoid by hand. Reversing the loco triggers the solenoid to switch to red. When the lights are on red the loci stops on the signal track & when green keeps going, so basically seems to be working correctly. I don't know where the blue wire connects or what wire to connect to slot with red circle in the base.

17063742754725272836296539919409.jpg

Can anyone tell me the correct connections please so I can remotely control the signal. Also, does anyone know the Marklin no for this item as can't find any information about it.

Thanks & best regards,

Rich

17063739022973972281630632176056.jpg17063738497606707782581938499646.jpg17063738713277909712386833261902.jpg17063737964656158447293840077569.jpg

Edited by moderator 28 January 2024 12:31:17(UTC)  | Reason: Tidy up text/images

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Offline mountainroads  
#2 Posted : 27 January 2024 21:39:42(UTC)
mountainroads


Joined: 16/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 79
Location: Washington, Seattle
No expert here, but I respectfully ask if you are sure you have the wires connected correctly? The fact that the signal switches to red on loco reversal makes me suspicious.

That is a very strange underside picture. A close look makes me think there should be no need to provide center rail power since it's coming from the small wire connected to the tab on the left end of the attached track piece. Also, there should be no need for a brown/common connection as it typically comes from the connected track.

That's a very early unit so maybe different, but typically brown designates common and yellow to steady transformer power for the signal lights. My guess is the blue wire is for solenoid switching and the red plug socket is for overhead catenary connection, but if so each of those colors should have two connections. Unclear from the picture, but it looks like the red plug socket has no connected wire???

I suggest connecting common (brown) power to the track piece as normal via a connected power supply track piece and the yellow wire to transformer yellow to see if you have signal lights. If not, then connect the brown wire to transformer common to see if you have signal lights. Next, see if touching blue wire to transformer yellow energizes the solenoid. Perhaps the brown wire switches the signal to green (??????). Things get more complicated if that doesn't work. Just my .02 and willing to be corrected/called out for being a dummy.

Good luck,

- MR
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2024 12:42:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Interesting piece, but I don't think it's actually 'from' Märklin, but it's certainly 'for' Märklin.

There were a number of manufacturers making accessories compatible with Märklin including track of various types by Italian, Spanish & French companies.

There maybe a clue in what appears to be an oval marking on the trackbed, can you take a clear close-up photo of that?, might help chase it down.

As for the socket, I think it's possibly meant to be Brown rather than Red, and because it's not wired to anything it would be the same as the trackbed / outer rails on the track.

Because it appears to be electrically separate, it may require a wire run from that socket to the Brown (0) output of the transformer. Give that a try.

Cheers

Steve

Signal - MUN.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline RudiC  
#4 Posted : 28 January 2024 15:15:21(UTC)
RudiC

Germany   
Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
Hello,
nice conundrum.

From what I see,
the yellow wire (1) is the constant AC lighting current supply, and is continued by the grey/brown (1) to the bulbs in the signal post. Blue and light brown should operate the solenoid if push-buttoned to ground. So here might be your desired remote control. Verify continuity / resistance between yellow and blue / light brown respectively with a multimeter.
The red and green wires (2) come from the bulbs and are being switched to ground (non-isolated wire 3) by the solenoid slider (4). Check action of slider with a multimeter.
It looks like there is a second row of solder points beneath that one, and maybe a third one just above the solenoid contacts. If so, it might be used by the thick light brown wire (5) connected to the signal-switched isolated centre rail (stop section), but it is hard to identify (6).

There is an open solder pin (7) connected to this third row of contacts (or to the blue wire, difficult to see). Hard to guess what it is for, as is the wire resistor / heater (8). One of its ends is screw tightened to ground (right hand position), the other disappears behind the relay board.
Wire (9) connects the two non-isolated, non-switched centre rails so the track can be continued beyond the signal.

vintagesignal.jpg


Some more photos, close-up and wires untangled, might help, esp. position (6)

Edited by user 28 January 2024 18:38:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 28 January 2024 16:20:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I suspect that with only one blue wire it may have a double acting solenoid like some of the early Marklin points.

Pulse it once and the signal goes red. Pulse it again and the signal goes green. Pulse it again the signal goes red.

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Offline TrainDick  
#6 Posted : 28 January 2024 16:46:11(UTC)
TrainDick

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/12/2021(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: England, Brighton


Hi Steve,

Well spotted & a bit faint & didn't notice it myself but under magnification the symbol printed on the track says 'unis France'.

I then looked at various French manufacturers & this was made by JEP. It's a 56-28 track blocking signal so that solves that mystery.

I have found a forum which has a circuit diagram & apparently works with 20v AC or DC which explains why lights work with Marklin transformer.

I'm not sure if this was made for Marklin but does connect to Marklin track & like the build quality & look of the signal, so may try to incorporate it into my layout. From what I can tell a rare survivor in great working condition. Having looked up a bit about history of Jep, looks like they made great items but not cheap end which explains build quality.

Thanks for all replies guys. Appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich

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Offline RudiC  
#7 Posted : 28 January 2024 21:47:25(UTC)
RudiC

Germany   
Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
Would you mind posting the circuit diagram?
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