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Offline dave55uk  
#1 Posted : 21 January 2024 12:09:40(UTC)
dave55uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: Ely, England
Hi all. I'm just about to start erecting catenary.

I wasn't originally going to bother but I've just acquired quite a few
Eshelle masts - I think they're French but they're modern and
will be good enough for me. Unfortunately the 3- and 4-track spans
don't line up with Marklin's or my track spacing but maybe they'll
'do' for 2- or 3-tracks. I don't like the way Marklin (and maybe other types)
of catenary bend round curves so I'm wanting them 'straight' going around curves.

So. Has anyone any hints & tips they'd like to share with me before I start please?
Offline Michael4  
#2 Posted : 21 January 2024 12:42:51(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 642
Location: England, South Coast
Worth a read if you haven't already:


https://www.marklin-user...tenary--yet-again--sorry
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
Offline BenP  
#3 Posted : 21 January 2024 13:45:28(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Marklin recommends straight segments between masts, but i find that slight bend over curves works better with vintage pantographs. Catenary is cosmetic on my HO digital-M layout and functional on my Z layout.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline dlwestphalen  
#4 Posted : 21 January 2024 16:36:24(UTC)
dlwestphalen

Canada   
Joined: 07/02/2023(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Alberta, Calgary
The 3rd Rail YouTube channel has an excellent tutorial on the M track catenary system. Not sure which kind of track you are using.

?si=xJwc_8qh6PlTg3re
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by dlwestphalen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 21 January 2024 17:54:54(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi Dave

Certainly not a specialist here but I try to share my experience

My choices:
- to fit only a part of my layout to allow a credible operation of electric locos (allows me to operate steamers and diesel so more diverse traction means)
- not to fit non-visible parts as it leads to added costs and reduced accessibility
- not to operate with raised pantographs (I experienced firsthand how quick a pantograph can be destroyed by a misplaced catenary).
- to use Viessman catenary as it is compatible with Märklin's with a wider choice and reduced prices

My observations
- catenary is nice to have but when stations are fitted with covered platforms, it becomes a nightmare (to be avoided at all cost in this situation)
- catenary is normally well installed but the key thing is: during interventions, it is often displaced unavertently so keep it ONLY where accessibility is EXCELLENT otherwise forget it.
- some train fans install the masts but NOT the catenary. It is not a bad idea as in my country (France) high voltage (25 kV) allows using thin wires that are not very visible and not having those wires simplifies a lot accessibility.
- because I use Rocrail, each electric loco will not be proposed routes where the traction mode does not fit (no electrics when there is no catenary)
- the idea of NOT FITTING the entire layout was indeed an excellent decision

Here is a video about my layout with one mainline fitted with catenary and the others (branch lines, etc) being without


Cheers

Jean



thanks 6 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline dave55uk  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2024 02:46:29(UTC)
dave55uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: Ely, England
Some excellent comments there Johnjean, thank you.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- to fit only a part of my layout to allow a credible operation of electric locos (allows me to operate steamers and diesel so more diverse traction means)


Only the 'main' line will be electrified, the branch will remain diesel only.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- not to fit non-visible parts as it leads to added costs and reduced accessibility


The fiddle yard (shadow station) will not be fitted with catenary.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- not to operate with raised pantographs (I experienced firsthand how quick a pantograph can be destroyed by a misplaced catenary).


I'd like to have raised pantographs - we'll see how it goes.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- to use Viessman catenary as it is compatible with Märklin's with a wider choice and reduced prices


Good point!

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- catenary is nice to have but when stations are fitted with covered platforms, it becomes a nightmare (to be avoided at all cost in this situation)


My platforms will not be covered - that was decided before I thought of having catenary.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- catenary is normally well installed but the key thing is: during interventions, it is often displaced unavertently so keep it ONLY where accessibility is EXCELLENT otherwise forget it.


Fortunately, I planned the railway so that I could reach it - I have a centre operating space.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- some train fans install the masts but NOT the catenary. It is not a bad idea as in my country (France) high voltage (25 kV) allows using thin wires that are not very visible and not having those wires simplifies a lot accessibility.


I can see the reason for not intalling the wires but to me it would look too wrong.

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- because I use Rocrail, each electric loco will not be proposed routes where the traction mode does not fit (no electrics when there is no catenary)


Manual driving for me :-)

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

- the idea of NOT FITTING the entire layout was indeed an excellent decision


My branch line is longer than the visible part of the main line.

And thanks for the video.

Offline Toosmall  
#7 Posted : 22 January 2024 03:26:19(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 616
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: dave55uk Go to Quoted Post
I don't like the way Marklin (and maybe other types)
of catenary bend round curves so I'm wanting them 'straight' going around curves.

The way around this is to use realistic track radius. But most of us don't have the room.

Even in Z gauge it's impossible to solve, unless you raise masts & leave off wires, but then masts look too tall. Something has to give somewhere.
_MG_7595_071344.jpg
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline Michael4  
#8 Posted : 22 January 2024 10:42:05(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 642
Location: England, South Coast
I enjoy catenary.

I use M track and the old fashioned masts that clip to the track (in most instances). The beauty of these is that you can shuffle them around without disturbing too much.

The electrical connectivity of the catenary seems better than the track, much of which is old and battered. Bending the catenary on curves is all but unavoidable. Masts clipped to tracks do not look good on inclines. Bridge masts for M track are expensive and hard to find.

The catenary is live but is confined to easy to reach circuits. Using contact tracks to control catenary makes for more wires. If you are an analogista this will be much appreciated.

In low light dirty catenary can cause sparks, add to this the ability to change coach lighting whilst on the move and the overall effect gets interesting.

For me, plenty of upsides but the downside is accesibility and the tendency for your sleeves to tangle with masts etc.

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Michael4
Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 23 January 2024 08:13:13(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
I want to run with the pantos raised, but I realize that it is unavoidable that it will fail OFTEN, and get tangled against masts and wires. So the pantos must be limited in movement, and run a millimeter lower that the wire.
That way you still get the "compression" of the pantos going under/over bridges and entering tunnels. -But for the rest of the layout it should stay free of the wire!!!
I think that will be the optimal solution -at least for me.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline Willem99  
#10 Posted : 23 January 2024 22:41:49(UTC)
Willem99

United States   
Joined: 18/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Georgia, Ball Ground
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I want to run with the pantos raised, but I realize that it is unavoidable that it will fail OFTEN, and get tangled against masts and wires. So the pantos must be limited in movement, and run a millimeter lower that the wire.
That way you still get the "compression" of the pantos going under/over bridges and entering tunnels. -But for the rest of the layout it should stay free of the wire!!!
I think that will be the optimal solution -at least for me.


Sounds great, but how do you keep the pantographs half raised without it showing up and messing up the effect of it ??
Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 24 January 2024 14:44:17(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Willem99 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I want to run with the pantos raised, but I realize that it is unavoidable that it will fail OFTEN, and get tangled against masts and wires. So the pantos must be limited in movement, and run a millimeter lower that the wire.
That way you still get the "compression" of the pantos going under/over bridges and entering tunnels. -But for the rest of the layout it should stay free of the wire!!!
I think that will be the optimal solution -at least for me.


Sounds great, but how do you keep the pantographs half raised without it showing up and messing up the effect of it ??


With a hair-thin fishing line. I think there are several ways of doing it...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
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