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Solved Help with Roco loco vs MS2 - Lights flashing, won't move
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Offline The Crocodile  
#1 Posted : 16 January 2024 19:29:01(UTC)
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The Crocodile

Iceland   
Joined: 22/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 111
Hi,

I have a Roco Rc 5 (68602) that has been running flawlessly on my Märklin layout, until now.

Randomly, in a running session, it just stopped, the lights went dead and it wouldn't move. When I press the "wheel" on my MS2 it flashes its lights 4 times, then if I press it again, it flashes 4 times but quicker. Change direction any more and it repeats the 4 flashing lights.

I cannot get it to move, and I cannot control the lights on it other than make them flash by changing running direction.

If I had to guess its either signalling some sort of error, or I entered some kind of programming mode I cannot get out of? If anyone else experienced this, I'd appreciate any help:)

Edited by user 18 January 2024 18:53:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

C-track, temporary layout. I try to run my locos as much as possible:)
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Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 16 January 2024 20:38:31(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: The Crocodile Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I have a Roco Rc 5 (68602) that has been running flawlessly on my Märklin layout, until now.

Randomly, in a running session, it just stopped, the lights went dead and it wouldn't move. When I press the "wheel" on my MS2 it flashes its lights 4 times, then if I press it again, it flashes 4 times but quicker. Change direction any more and it repeats the 4 flashing lights.

I cannot get it to move, and I cannot control the lights on it other than make them flash by changing running direction.

If I had to guess its either signalling some sort of error, or I entered some kind of programming mode I cannot get out of? If anyone else experienced this, I'd appreciate any help:)


First i recommended you set your MS2 in only DCC protocol.
Second you must disabled unnecessary protocol in the locomotives decoder and only accept DCC.
Be sure that only one locomotive stand alone on the track when you change value.
Did you tried to reset locomotive first?

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 17 January 2024 00:35:48(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Crocodile Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I have a Roco Rc 5 (68602) that has been running flawlessly on my Märklin layout, until now.

Randomly, in a running session, it just stopped, the lights went dead and it wouldn't move. When I press the "wheel" on my MS2 it flashes its lights 4 times, then if I press it again, it flashes 4 times but quicker. Change direction any more and it repeats the 4 flashing lights.

I cannot get it to move, and I cannot control the lights on it other than make them flash by changing running direction.

If I had to guess its either signalling some sort of error, or I entered some kind of programming mode I cannot get out of? If anyone else experienced this, I'd appreciate any help:)


First i recommended you set your MS2 in only DCC protocol.
Second you must disabled unnecessary protocol in the locomotives decoder and only accept DCC.
Be sure that only one locomotive stand alone on the track when you change value.
Did you tried to reset locomotive first?



And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 17 January 2024 08:34:04(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.
That depends.
Since DCC is more versatile than MM, I would not recommend disabling DCC in general. It may be appropriate in specific cases.
I recommend using addresses greater 255 for DCC locos.
I cannot disable MM because I have quite a few old "MM only" locos.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 17 January 2024 11:43:42(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Disable because set wrong topic.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 17 January 2024 11:46:16(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Crocodile Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I have a Roco Rc 5 (68602) that has been running flawlessly on my Märklin layout, until now.

Randomly, in a running session, it just stopped, the lights went dead and it wouldn't move. When I press the "wheel" on my MS2 it flashes its lights 4 times, then if I press it again, it flashes 4 times but quicker. Change direction any more and it repeats the 4 flashing lights.

I cannot get it to move, and I cannot control the lights on it other than make them flash by changing running direction.

If I had to guess its either signalling some sort of error, or I entered some kind of programming mode I cannot get out of? If anyone else experienced this, I'd appreciate any help:)


First i recommended you set your MS2 in only DCC protocol.
Second you must disabled unnecessary protocol in the locomotives decoder and only accept DCC.
Be sure that only one locomotive stand alone on the track when you change value.
Did you tried to reset locomotive first?



And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.


I don´t understand why you write like that for?
TS did wrote Roco and they use Zimo sound decoder.
These works better with DCC protocol.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 17 January 2024 13:27:50(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.


I don´t understand why you write like that for?
TS did wrote Roco and they use Zimo sound decoder.
These works better with DCC protocol.



Because he says he has ONE Roco loco, and it was working on his MARKLIN layout. Now having a Marklin layout suggests he has at least one Marklin loco, so using DCC only is probably not an option.

Once again you gave very blinkered advice.
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Offline The Crocodile  
#8 Posted : 17 January 2024 20:42:26(UTC)
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The Crocodile

Iceland   
Joined: 22/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 111
Hello, indeed I do have 5 Märklin locos and only one Roco loco, I shall try to remove the others off of the track and do a loco reset through the MS2 and see if things improve.

Thanks a lot for your responses! Finger’s crossed
C-track, temporary layout. I try to run my locos as much as possible:)
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 18 January 2024 02:57:58(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,898
Location: Montreal, QC
I am just going to throw this out as a thought.

Delete the locomotive from the list in your MS2 and then allow the MS2 to detect it again

If that does not work, you can register a new locomotive with a DCC address of 03 (or whatever address you were using) and see if that works.
The locomotive instructions might also reveal which Motorola/MM address the locomotive was assigned at factory and you can test that

If all that fails, do the reset to factory values

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Vinedusk  
#10 Posted : 18 January 2024 04:36:43(UTC)
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Vinedusk

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: New South Wales
Originally Posted by: The Crocodile Go to Quoted Post
Hello, indeed I do have 5 Märklin locos and only one Roco loco, I shall try to remove the others off of the track and do a loco reset through the MS2 and see if things improve.

Thanks a lot for your responses! Finger’s crossed


Here's some additional info that we needed: there are other locos (and their decoders) on the track.

First, I'd try seeing what happens just by taking all those other locos off. That will isolate comms between the loco and the MS2.
Then, as suggested, isolate the protocol being used. Ensure the loco and controller are both set to use the same protocol.

I'm assuming that the Marklin locos are not having any problems. You should prove that each loco is individually controllable as part of the resolution.
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Offline The Crocodile  
#11 Posted : 18 January 2024 18:53:08(UTC)
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The Crocodile

Iceland   
Joined: 22/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 111
Alright managed to get it back online! Thank you guys for your help. I removed every other loco from the track, reset the Roco loco, unplugged everything and plugged it back in again. Now it works just like before. I also checked so that I could run my other locos without any issues, all good!

I am strongly thinking about selling this Roco Rc 5 and replacing it with Märklin's new orange Rc 5. I'd get an Mfx decoder and sound, and I'd also have an arsenal of 6 locos only from Märklin, this Roco Rc 5 is the only non-Märklin loco I own, bought back in 2014 or so.
Perhaps it's unnecessary as there is nothing wrong with this one, and it runs smoothly.

Anyways, thank you all for your help!
C-track, temporary layout. I try to run my locos as much as possible:)
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 19 January 2024 05:16:41(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.


I don´t understand why you write like that for?
TS did wrote Roco and they use Zimo sound decoder.
These works better with DCC protocol.



Because he says he has ONE Roco loco, and it was working on his MARKLIN layout. Now having a Marklin layout suggests he has at least one Marklin loco, so using DCC only is probably not an option.

Once again you gave very blinkered advice.



No DCC are an protocol.
It´s a must by program and change value and most used in the world.
Yes TS did wrote one Roco loco but TS did not verified type of decoder.
Will you stop fool against me? Cursing


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 20 January 2024 01:35:52(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.


I don´t understand why you write like that for?
TS did wrote Roco and they use Zimo sound decoder.
These works better with DCC protocol.



Because he says he has ONE Roco loco, and it was working on his MARKLIN layout. Now having a Marklin layout suggests he has at least one Marklin loco, so using DCC only is probably not an option.

Once again you gave very blinkered advice.



No DCC are an protocol.

I know DCC is a protocol, so are marklin Motorola and mfx.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

It´s a must by program and change value and most used in the world.
Yes TS did wrote one Roco loco but TS did not verified type of decoder.
Will you stop fool against me? Cursing


Did he need to verify the type of decoder? I don't think he did, he sorted it by doing some resets without knowing the decoder type.

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Offline Vinedusk  
#14 Posted : 23 January 2024 11:29:23(UTC)
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Vinedusk

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2023(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: New South Wales
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

And what happens if his other locos are using Marklin protocols, and are unable to use DCC?
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only, and set the ms2 to not use DCC.


I don´t understand why you write like that for?
TS did wrote Roco and they use Zimo sound decoder.
These works better with DCC protocol.



Because he says he has ONE Roco loco, and it was working on his MARKLIN layout. Now having a Marklin layout suggests he has at least one Marklin loco, so using DCC only is probably not an option.

Once again you gave very blinkered advice.



No DCC are an protocol.

I know DCC is a protocol, so are marklin Motorola and mfx.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

It´s a must by program and change value and most used in the world.
Yes TS did wrote one Roco loco but TS did not verified type of decoder.
Will you stop fool against me? Cursing


Did he need to verify the type of decoder? I don't think he did, he sorted it by doing some resets without knowing the decoder type.



Quote:
Quite frankly the advice should be to get the loco to use MM or mfx protocols only

As you pointed out previously, this was a ROCO loco. You can't be sure that the decoder supports MM or mfx. In in order to follow your advice, then yes, maybe we did need to know more about the decoder.

Marklin now places the DCC logo on its brochures, right next to the mfx logo. Using DCC is a very real option and one that Marklin now openly supports.
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Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 19 March 2024 07:08:04(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
TS did stated a model 68602 but there was no decoder.
It´s an analog locomotive and i suppose he did put a single loco decoder.
Truth is that he did not stated kind of decoder but it´s not either Märklin.
The loco have 8 pole schnitt stelle.

As i did wrote earlier...use DCC protocol and reset your decoder!
Try to register your loco back to the MS2 again.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline mike c  
#16 Posted : 19 March 2024 15:26:50(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,898
Location: Montreal, QC
Goofy,

I don't know whether it is a language issue or something else, but your posts can be confusing.
Since around 2003, most if not all Roco AC models have come equipped with factory decoders.
The last AC models in my collection without decoders were Re 460 (43970) from around 2002

I suspect that the MS2 was triggering the Roco locomotive into programming mode.
Normally if the power is switched off and then turned back on after 30 seconds, the decoder will once again respond in normal mode

I am happy with my Roco models.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 19 March 2024 15:35:46(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
As i did wrote earlier...use DCC protocol and reset your decoder!
Try to register your loco back to the MS2 again.
The loco was digital ex works, had been working for a long time. And after a reset, it was working again.
Issue resolved months ago.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 20 March 2024 08:23:54(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
As i did wrote earlier...use DCC protocol and reset your decoder!
Try to register your loco back to the MS2 again.
The loco was digital ex works, had been working for a long time. And after a reset, it was working again.
Issue resolved months ago.



Yes i know but TS did not verified how he did used to solve the problem.
Did TS used DCC or MM?
What kind of decoder is there in the Roco Rc5 model?
If Roco loco did suddenly strange acting on the track there are bugs.
I do notice there are some trouble shoot by use Märklins MS2.
Not first time i read problems about Märklin system by use competitors locomotives.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 20 March 2024 09:12:01(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Not first time i read problems about Märklin system by use competitors locomotives.
The MS2 is buggier than Maine in June.
It needed a bug fix when ESU brought out the V4 decoders, it needed a bug fix when Märklin brought out mfx+ decoders, it still has many bugs that even show with Märklin locos.

The MS1 and CS1 work with ESU V4 decoders and with mfx+ decoders without updates.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#20 Posted : 23 March 2024 11:21:03(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Not first time i read problems about Märklin system by use competitors locomotives.
The MS2 is buggier than Maine in June.
It needed a bug fix when ESU brought out the V4 decoders, it needed a bug fix when Märklin brought out mfx+ decoders, it still has many bugs that even show with Märklin locos.

The MS1 and CS1 work with ESU V4 decoders and with mfx+ decoders without updates.


The problem are Märklin system...

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline marklinist5999  
#21 Posted : 23 March 2024 12:34:25(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Happy to report that I have a Roco 78749 br 218 with the Zimo DCC MX645 or 50 sound decoder and no problems on my MS2 or CS3. No auto recognition, but first I installed it in the CS3 and then assigned it to the MS2 which is connected to it. I changed the address using the programming track. I have not tried changing any macros other than the volume which is set to Vmax from the factory. Sound is good, and it drives more prototypically than my Marklin Cottbus version, which I had to lower the volume on so it doesn't drown out the Rico when running both. The Roco is also more in sink with speed and sound relation. The brake threshold is exact from the factory, and better than the Marklin. Brake squeal occurs regardless of the stopping distance. Now Marklin may have improved this on new 2024 models because they have a new sound project.
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