Hello all,

I have recently been going through my pile of bits and pieces putting various bits together into workable locos for use on analogue.

I've got a few bits from the 60760 digital conversion kits and I noticed that the armatures from these kits are green coloured on the outer edge of the pole pieces.
Looking at the insides of Marklin digital locos (mainly 37xxx range) the five pole armatures are coloured black on the pole pieces.

Is there any difference between these armatures? For example the number of turns in the windings, resistance etc.?
Are the green ones wound so as to be optimal for the 60760 decoder or is it simply that Marklin changed the colour.?

I am enjoying making useful locos out of assorted parts that have been laying around - it's quite satisfying.
Thanks, Paul

A useful bit of information there Alan, thank you - I have never had any 35xx locos so none of my armatures will have originated from them - interesting though. If/when I do get one I'll have a look.

The ones with the 60760 decoders are definately green so I wonder if they are higher current as well. I'll have to do some tests.

the armature from 60760 and 60901 etc are green, but in later 60941 they are black.
The spare part number is the same 386820 and when you google it you will get green and black results.
However, it's reported that the black ones have a slightly thicker collector drum diameter of 4,9mm vs 4,4mm on the green ones
have used both colours with the msd3 and have not noticed any difference, but I have not compared directly.
armatures from 35xx (610030) series are bigger and also green if I remember correctly.

Edited by user 21 October 2023 23:58:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I have no idea, but it might?, as the contact area is probably also different.

There are two types of five pole armature from the DCM motor.

1. the 5 pole from the 35** series of analogue locos. These can only be used with the old AC field magnet and a decoder like the 60906. the outer diameter of these armatures is larger than the units designed for use in digital, hence the inability to use them with the later magnet.

2. the 5 pole DCM Armatur from the 60901/60941/60760 etc…. kits. These are smaller outside diameter than the armatures that are supplied in the old analogue 35** kits. They are used with the permanent magnet replacements for the old field coils and normally come in a kit unless specifically ordered as a spare.

I have used the old 35** „analogue“ motors with the new 60906 decoder and the results are acceptable for me. Obviously the newer design motor and decoder kits have some advantages, but if you are looking for the satisfaction of recycling older parts rather than discarding, then I would say it is thoroughly worthwhile.

Cheers…..

Mike

Hi Paul,

Yes they are the same OD as the three pole analogue units. These are the motors that draw slightly higher current. Although that makes sense because you have to power both the armature and the field magnet.

In terms of the other 5 pole units from kits, they are totally interchangeable regardless of colour.

Cheers….

Mike

hi
I have some 6090 and 60901 and they all have green armatures. (60901 was launched in 1997).
I recently replaced the permanent magnet of a 6090 and the armature was green. (the magnet had started to disintegrate, a known issue)
The recent 60941 I bought is black and I believe the latest locomotives with that motor also have black armatures.
However, some very early armatures were indeed blue. but in the 1991 catalogue (my paper copy), it seems like the 6090 armature is green but it's a bit hard to tell. (6090 marked as new in1991)

But could there have been a batch of some black ones earlier also? eg around 2003?

I measured the collector drum one a green one to approx 4,36, and a black one to approx 4,87, and the green 35xx (610030) to approx 4,26mm. (the black one from a recent 60941)
and the later black one has slightly larger contact areas on the collector drum vs the green

Interesting discoveries, I'm tempted to use one green and one black armature in two BR52's that I plan to upgrade with msd3.

Yes, I have done it. You just have to test fit the gear on the armature to make sure it turns freely, and doesn't bind or have to be forced to turn. I bought one 5 pole armature, and have swapped it from a few different Locos. It fits the SBB Re460 Hamo, DB br 111, and br 120. My br 120 is a/c Delta with a field coil, and it also works in it. I have only one other Hamo, an SBB Croc, which I have not tried. It draws a bit more current with DC, but runs much faster.

Thanks guys; I am specifically looking for 5-pole armatures for AC field-coil motors. (NOT permanent magnets)
I run my engines analogue, and want to improve slow-running characteristics "cheap and easy".
Particularly I am looking for higher torque at low tension, and definitely NOT higher speeds...
I am looking for shortcuts, rather than having to digitalize old analogue and Delta locos for improved analogue running. Seems kind of wasteful...

Just replacing the 3-pole armature with a 610030 will increase the speed at all speed levels.
in order to take advantage of the 5 pole armature in analogue, you will also need the "controller" that comes in the 7180 sets.