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Offline Eddie7979  
#1 Posted : 18 October 2023 02:57:41(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Hi everyone, hope you are all keeping well.

I’m on to my next challenge, which is the use of the M84 decoder from Märklin and connection of the following signals from Viessmann:

1 x Distant Signal (2 aspect)
1 x Distant Signal (3 aspect)

In terms of control, I have the CS3 Plus and I will be using Rocrail for automation. The signals are purely aesthetic, they will not be stopping the trains in any way.

Originally, I configured the M84 to have 8 switches and 8 addresses. Each LED for the 3 aspect has its own address while the 2 aspect had a seperate address for the green / orange.

This made it problematic when doing the configuration on Rocrail for the 3 aspect distant signal.

I have since returned the configuration to the factory setting (CV79 - 0), for the 3 aspect I use 2 addresses. This is still not working / behaving the way it should.

So, I thought I would ask whether anyone here is using these signals and have any experience using the M84. The instruction book I have and even the CS3 guide I bought doesn’t really provide much information.

There is a tutorial on the M84 on YouTube by Model Train Fun, I just need to sit through a few hours of footage. This is my way of trying to skip all that (even though those tutorials are super helpful).

Regards,

Eddie
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Eddie7979
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 18 October 2023 06:59:04(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I Think you had better be more expansive on which Viessmann signals you are referring to.

A m84 (60842) is not the normal choice for most signals.
Are you expecting to use the screw terminals with external power, or the flat terminals (usable for MyWorld signals ) where the m84 provides power
the later has no 3 aspect solution.

From the way you have phrased things, I would be quite happy with 8 port mode WITH external relays


Peter
Offline Eddie7979  
#3 Posted : 18 October 2023 07:36:53(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
I Think you had better be more expansive on which Viessmann signals you are referring to.

A m84 (60842) is not the normal choice for most signals.
Are you expecting to use the screw terminals with external power, or the flat terminals (usable for MyWorld signals ) where the m84 provides power
the later has no 3 aspect solution.

From the way you have phrased things, I would be quite happy with 8 port mode WITH external relays




Hi,

Thanks for the comment.

The Viessmann signals I bought is the 4010.

I have also since ordered 2 others, 4011 and 4012.

I thought this would be a simple thing to set up but it seems I was wrong.

The plan is to use the screw in terminals on the M84.

I will have a look at relays, just need to see if this will work with Rocrail as well.
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 18 October 2023 12:11:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,126
Location: Paris, France
Hi Eddfie
You have the Märklin family and the Viessman family. Both are plug and play BUT when you mix them (your case) you will find it less convenient.
To use the full potential of an M84 (60842) you need special connectors (part of the Marklin Myworld signals). Otherwise, no problem but using the screw terminals you have access to a "dry contact" (without any polarity, power feed or resistor to limit the current in a LED). No big deal, just insert in the signal circuit, a 14 VDC poxwer supply and the Viessmann-provided resistor in the common anode (Plus LED common) of the signal

To use the full potential of the M84,maybe, visiting an electronic component store with your M84, you may find what you need (2 or 3 poles PCB plug, one side connectors)
Cheers
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 18 October 2023 14:56:51(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Aren't the signals and decoders from either competitively priced? Why not just match them. If you use 2 rail, Viessmann. 3 rail, Marklin.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
Offline Eddie7979  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2023 17:26:19(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Eddfie
You have the Märklin family and the Viessman family. Both are plug and play BUT when you mix them (your case) you will find it less convenient.
To use the full potential of an M84 (60842) you need special connectors (part of the Marklin Myworld signals). Otherwise, no problem but using the screw terminals you have access to a "dry contact" (without any polarity, power feed or resistor to limit the current in a LED). No big deal, just insert in the signal circuit, a 14 VDC poxwer supply and the Viessmann-provided resistor in the common anode (Plus LED common) of the signal

To use the full potential of the M84,maybe, visiting an electronic component store with your M84, you may find what you need (2 or 3 poles PCB plug, one side connectors)
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean,

Thanks for the comment, I will look into this.

I have been watching some tutorials online and I think I may be able to do some programming.

?si=rm_cyy9dNWl0xtFF

So much to learn!


Regards,


Eddie
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Eddie7979
Offline Eddie7979  
#7 Posted : 18 October 2023 17:32:28(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Aren't the signals and decoders from either competitively priced? Why not just match them. If you use 2 rail, Viessmann. 3 rail, Marklin.


The reason I’m using Viessmann is because I find their signals look nicer than the ones from Marklin.
Also, Viessmann make a variety of products that are compatible with Marklin.

Also, I’m planning on having a section of my layout in a French and another a Swiss theme. I found some manufacturers that make French and Swiss signals. These manufacturers also have so many options.

It’s all about variety and personal choice.
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Eddie7979
Offline PeFu  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2023 22:33:15(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,210
I had some Viessmann 4011 signals on my previous layout. They look good and the price is nice. There is no motor or relay in the signal, as I remember it comes with 3 cables:

BLACK which is the common positive, and should be connected to YELLOW on the transformer.
RED which is connected to the red LED.
GREEN which is connected to the green LED.

The 4011 is a two aspect signal. It will use 1 of the 4 addresses on your m84. You connect the RED and GREEN cables to the leftmost and rightmost outputs resp. related to the address. Finally a cable between the mid output related to the address, and BROWN on the transformer. This should work.

For a three aspect signal, you will require 2 of your 4 addresses on your m84. On your 4010, I would connect the upper green and yellow LEDs to one address, and the lower green and yellow LEDs to another address.

I agree with our fellow forum friends that the m84 is not ideal for these signals. It’s a pretty expensive solution. I use a signal decoder from LDT that can manage 8 two aspect signals at a lower cost than for one m84 which only can manage 4 two aspect signals.

As you mention an interest in Swiss signals, I can recommend the SBB signals from Schneider.

Smile

Edited by user 19 October 2023 05:56:09(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
Offline Eddie7979  
#9 Posted : 29 October 2023 04:29:56(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
I had some Viessmann 4011 signals on my previous layout. They look good and the price is nice. There is no motor or relay in the signal, as I remember it comes with 3 cables:

BLACK which is the common positive, and should be connected to YELLOW on the transformer.
RED which is connected to the red LED.
GREEN which is connected to the green LED.

The 4011 is a two aspect signal. It will use 1 of the 4 addresses on your m84. You connect the RED and GREEN cables to the leftmost and rightmost outputs resp. related to the address. Finally a cable between the mid output related to the address, and BROWN on the transformer. This should work.

For a three aspect signal, you will require 2 of your 4 addresses on your m84. On your 4010, I would connect the upper green and yellow LEDs to one address, and the lower green and yellow LEDs to another address.

I agree with our fellow forum friends that the m84 is not ideal for these signals. It’s a pretty expensive solution. I use a signal decoder from LDT that can manage 8 two aspect signals at a lower cost than for one m84 which only can manage 4 two aspect signals.

As you mention an interest in Swiss signals, I can recommend the SBB signals from Schneider.

Smile


Hello,

I will look into these brands when I’m I start the Swiss section.

Some other brands I have come across:

- Maffen (Spanish brand, mostly made of metal)
- Decapod (French band, metal construction, requires assembly)
- Disque Rouge (French brand, metal construction I think)

Decapod also made a bunch of accessories, such as a brass current collectors to fit trucks from various manufacturers and decorative parts.

PS, the black wire is connected to the brown - correction.
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
Offline Eddie7979  
#10 Posted : 29 October 2023 04:35:56(UTC)
Eddie7979

Australia   
Joined: 01/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 109
Location: Western Australia, Bassendean
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to thank everyone for the posts.

I was able to the get it all working, I found a step by step tutorial on YouTube from (Bo Jensen - forgive me if the spelling is incorrect) Model Train Fun. The tutorial goes through the wiring, programming of the M84 and how to connect the diode.

If he is on this forum and sees this post, thank you.

Regards,

Eddie
Eddie
Perth 🇦🇺
Marklin | Roco | Piko
CS3+ & Rocrail
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