Railbus 3016 short circuit on switch 5140 / 5214

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Railbus 3016 short circuit on switch 5140 / 5214 - Issue with turnouts 5214 /5140

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Jfve		#1 Posted : 15 October 2023 14:16:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/09/2023(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Zuid-Holland, Noordwijk		Dear all, This first post in this forum! My name is Jan and live in Noordwijk in the Netherlands. I am a happy user of the marklin M-Track and use RocRail for controling the train-run. I hope I find a solution here for the issue that have with my Marklin 3016 Railbus. The problem is that is short circuit on the turnouts 5214 (3-way) and the 5140. The railbus has a new pickup shoe 7165 (50,2mm). Are there M-track users that have / had the same issue here, and what would solve this problem. Thanks for any reactions in advance. best regards, Jan van Eeden Noordwijk.


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Jfve		#2 Posted : 15 October 2023 14:56:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/09/2023(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Zuid-Holland, Noordwijk		Hi all, looking deeper into this situation, I see that there is a moment that there is no contact with a puko. So there is no short circuit but no contact with a puko. I have tested this on a 5214 turnout. Thanks Jan van Eeden Noordwijk


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Jfve		#3 Posted : 15 October 2023 14:57:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/09/2023(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Zuid-Holland, Noordwijk		Hi all, looking deeper into this situation, I see that there is a moment that there is no contact with a puko. So there is no short circuit but no contact with a puko. I have tested this on a 5214 turnout. Thanks Jan van Eeden Noordwijk


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JohnjeanB		#4 Posted : 15 October 2023 17:02:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,130 Location: Paris, France		Hi Jan Thanks for joining us in this great forum. I have a 3016 and I used to have M track during over 20 years, so here are my points - there should not be ANY issue with this 3016 - check the spacing of wheels inner flanges (It should be 13.9 or 14.0 mm) - check the slider: Is it perfectly straight? Is its orientation perfectly centered (parallel to wheels)? Is its spring reasonnably protruding (slider surface away 2 mm from the wheel - rail contact surface) - check that the turnouts giving problems have no bent pukos They should be centered in their square appertures° They should not be bent upwards (so as to raise the 3016 when the slider goes over the rails) or downwards (so as to make a loss of contact slider/pukos). Note that some Märklin short sliders may cause a pick-up disruption because of the, screw hole recess. Many sliders have now no screw hole and no recess Pfuuuu! That makes a lot of checks but this is rather easy. Here is a French fan of Rocrail. Here is a glimpse of my layout, not a 3016 but its newer equivalent and with Rocrail, of course Cheers Jean
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Jfve		#5 Posted : 15 October 2023 19:03:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/09/2023(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Zuid-Holland, Noordwijk		Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Jan Thanks for joining us in this great forum. I have a 3016 and I used to have M track during over 20 years, so here are my points - there should not be ANY issue with this 3016 - check the spacing of wheels inner flanges (It should be 13.9 or 14.0 mm) - check the slider: Is it perfectly straight? Is its orientation perfectly centered (parallel to wheels)? Is its spring reasonnably protruding (slider surface away 2 mm from the wheel - rail contact surface) - check that the turnouts giving problems have no bent pukos They should be centered in their square appertures° They should not be bent upwards (so as to raise the 3016 when the slider goes over the rails) or downwards (so as to make a loss of contact slider/pukos). Note that some Märklin short sliders may cause a pick-up disruption because of the, screw hole recess. Many sliders have now no screw hole and no recess Pfuuuu! That makes a lot of checks but this is rather easy. Here is a French fan of Rocrail. Here is a glimpse of my layout, not a 3016 but its newer equivalent and with Rocrail, of course Cheers Jean Hi Jean, Thank you for your reply and tips! I directley dived into it! :) I checked the following: - there is no issue with the 3016, it runs fine. - the spacing of the weeks is more than 14.0 mm. I measure 14.2 on the driven wheels and 14.1 on the other wheels. Could this cause the issue? - the slider is new and is parallel to the wheels. - I have tried 3 turnouts and they all have the same issue with the 3016. So I hope that the cause are the wheels. But how to fix this? Can I that by myself? Thank you!! Best regards Jan

1 user liked this useful post by Jfve		dlwestphalen
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JohnjeanB		#6 Posted : 16 October 2023 00:16:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,130 Location: Paris, France		Hi Ian The wheel flange spacing is a bit too large (0.2mm) but it is probably not the issue (see below). Here is my Märklin 3016 (1989) next to a 5137 Switch (same as a 5140 switch except shortened curved rail and plastic molded counter rail). My unmodified 3016 has: - a wheel spacing of 13.9 mm - a slider 50 mm long with a centered hole in recess (originally mounted As you may see, the only possibility for the slider to lose contact with the studs is to be bent so that its central part is further away from the railcar's body. In that case, the slider will touch the plastic rail inbetween at one moment without touching any stud (Puko) The effect of too wide wheel flange spacing (your case) - the axle is supposed to be pulled away from the frog, thus avoiding it to collide with its "nose" - This may be critical on some older M track switches with stamped steel counter-rails (but you may bend them slightly away from the frog and freeze the new position by twisting gently the protuding metal tongue underneath the ballast bed. I hope this helps Jean
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hxmiesa		#7 Posted : 16 October 2023 09:37:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		I have had similar problems, especially if the rail plastic-piece of the "heart piece" is damaged or worn out. In this case I glue a small (around 0,5mm thick) plastic strip onto the GUARDRAILS of the points. -In order to force the wheels further out towards the rail. Another trick is to cover the critical pukos with some shrinking-tube, in case the flange of the wheel is touching the side of them. Running on M-track, your wheels should really be adjusted to around 13,9mm. I do it myself without the right tools; I put the wheelset between two pieces of wood (with holes for the axles) and tap them lightly with a hammer. This works for making the space smaller, but not for the opposite... -so be careful! Of course the wheelsets have to be removed completely from the chassis for that operation.
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa		dlwestphalen
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Jfve		#8 Posted : 17 October 2023 09:59:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/09/2023(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Zuid-Holland, Noordwijk		Thanks for the tips, I am on holiday this week and will dive into it next week. I will keep you posted! Thanks Jan


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hxmiesa		#9 Posted : 19 October 2023 21:10:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		Ever since I wrote about the modifications you can do to the turnouts, in order to protect (against) the slider, I wanted to back up my words with a photo, but then forgot about it again. But here is one -better late than never; So, this is from the branch-line shadowstation; The switch is always set to CURVE, but as I run all kinds of locos and wagons, there are some pretty strange sliders among them, and some of them (shorter ones, loose ones, bend ones, etc...) can have a tendency to get caught and topple the whole train. (in the best case it just causes a short, and the train stops.) The problem area is from trains coming from the RIGHT side (in the photo) -Even if this particular point is approached from all 3 directions! (as mentioned, it´s always set to CURVE) Apart from bending the tracks with a plyer and, adjusting the heights with a hammer, some imaginative inserts also had to be glued in. If it looks stupid but works, then it´s not stupid! The guard rail extra is a strip cut from leftovers from a plastic kit, and the light-coloured inserts are made from wood.
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
2 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa		Martti Mäntylä, Willem99
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