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Offline dave55uk  
#1 Posted : 18 September 2023 21:11:38(UTC)
dave55uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 88
Location: Ely, England
Here in the UK, where OO [1:76] is the most popular gauge/scale, model railways are sort of divided into 'train sets' or 'model railways'.
In the 'model railway' group, it seems that scale is quite an important aspect.

Having looked at some Marklin passenger coaches, it seems that some are most definately not-to-scale, 1:100 being fairly common.

How do HO, and particularly Marklin, modellers find this?
I don't think it would be taken very well if OO model manufacturers did this.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 18 September 2023 21:31:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dave55uk Go to Quoted Post
Having looked at some Marklin passenger coaches, it seems that some are most definately not-to-scale, 1:100 being fairly common.
The length of some coaches is around 1:100 or even 1:120. But height should be correct. Width is sometimes reduced to get them through tunnels and over bridges.

Some folks decided to buy only coaches that are 1:87 in length. I am one of those.
Those people are usually called nit pickers, rivet counters, or even uglier names.

Shorter coaches allow people to have e. g. six coaches at a platform that could only hold five full length coaches.

As a modeller, you are king in your own country and you decide what you buy.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Paul187  
#3 Posted : 18 September 2023 21:39:59(UTC)
Paul187

United States   
Joined: 09/11/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: New Jersey
Hello:
Its about space. If we all had enough space, Marklin and most others would make things to exact scale. Those wide radius curves gobble up a lot of space and manufacturers make physical concessions to make it practical. I never collected Marklin for it's fine scale filigree or exact proportions, but for their overall esthetic and reliability.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 19 September 2023 16:09:43(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,192
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes Paull, which was why Marklin scales many models shorter than 1/87. Especially in europe, room sizes can often be small.
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Offline dave55uk  
#5 Posted : 19 September 2023 22:45:25(UTC)
dave55uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 88
Location: Ely, England
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes Paull, which was why Marklin scales many models shorter than 1/87. Especially in europe, room sizes can often be small.


I wondered that if coaches were scale length, the overhang would foul signals and tunnels etc.

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Offline heinrichhess  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2023 01:12:02(UTC)
heinrichhess

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Wales, powys
OO describes models with a scale of 4 mm = 1 foot (1:76) running on HO scale 1:87 (3.5 mm = 1 foot) track (16.5 mm/0.650").[2] This combination came about as early clockwork mechanisms and electric motors were difficult to fit within HO scale models of British trains which are smaller than European and North American counterparts. A quick and cheap solution was to enlarge the scale of the model to 4 mm-to-the-foot but keep the 3.5 mm-to-the-foot gauge track. This also allowed more space to model the external valve gear. The resulting HO track gauge of 16.5 mm represents 4 feet 1.5 inches at 4 mm-to-the-foot scale; this is 7 inches under scale, or approximately 2.33 mm too narro

hess
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2023 07:52:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dave55uk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes Paull, which was why Marklin scales many models shorter than 1/87. Especially in europe, room sizes can often be small.


I wondered that if coaches were scale length, the overhang would foul signals and tunnels etc.

Märklin made short versions even of short coaches. Here is an example:
UserPostedImage
As I understand it they are all models of the same prototype length, the lower one is 1:87.

In the catalogue they use symbols for 1:100 and 1:93.5. But reality is much more complicated.
More information about the different length scales used by Märklin can be found here:
https://www.marklin-user...lin-Length-Scale-Mystery
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 20 September 2023 10:02:37(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,679
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: dave55uk Go to Quoted Post
..

I wondered that if coaches were scale length, the overhang would foul signals and tunnels etc.



Yes Dave Märklin are very careful about the running quality of their models.
Track, rolling stock and engines are all made to a standard where they will not foul line-side structures and accessories on a Märklin model layout.
In order to achieve this, Märklin compromise on various measurements.
I also model English OO, and the 16.5mm track is a compromise in itself.
That is model trains for you - compromises everywhere.

Kimball


HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 20 September 2023 10:39:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Yes Dave Märklin are very careful about the running quality of their models.
Track, rolling stock and engines are all made to a standard where they will not foul line-side structures and accessories on a Märklin model layout.
In order to achieve this, Märklin compromise on various measurements.
Märklin clearly have different ways, so you must check each item.

Märklin offered 303 mm coaches in 1:87 that will collide with bridges, tunnel portals, signal masts and catenary masts on the inside of curves.
Märklin offered 292 mm coaches in 1:87 that will collide with bridges, tunnel portals, signal masts and catenary masts on the inside of curves.
The TGV/Thalys will also have such problems.

Usually there are warnings in the product description if such problems are known.


Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline hxmiesa  
#10 Posted : 20 September 2023 10:44:40(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,526
Location: Spain
When I started out as a kid, I was happy with the 24cm tinplate versions of the DSB (danish) coaches.
The even shorter SJ (swedish) coaches went well with them.
I didn´t really KNOW about anything else but Märklin, and wasn´t very much aware of the whole scale thing.
As long as it said "Märklin" on the box, I was happy, as I knew it would work well with my existing stuff.
Some odd Fleischmann, Roco, Liliput and Lima stuff just caused all kinds of problems.
(Electrotren was OK, as it was already made to the Märklin standard!)

As a teenager I was impressed with the 26,4 and 27 cm coaches. I dont think I realized that they were off scale. For a looong time the base of my collection consisted of a "huge" amount of these coaches in era IV.

In the early 2000´s I finally got my first string of 30,3 cm coaches. (A Rheingold era III from Rivarossi/Lima) Finally couplers and wheels were no longer a problem, and I was thrilled.

A few years ago I wanted to go completly era III, so I had to make a choice; Either go the full 1:87 way, or change to Märklins new 1:93 scale.
I chose to stay with Märklin, because of availability and compatibility with my existing stuff.
(At the moment of my choice, Flesichmann still existed as a viable supplier of additional 1:93 stuff, should I need a second supplier)

Today I can see that it would not have been a big problem had I gone the full 1:87 way, and unfortunatly Fleischmann has seized to exist as a H0 brand. On the other hand, I would not have been able to adquire so much new(used) material in such a short time, had I gone the 1:87 way.
Couplers, wheels and interior lighting also seems easier, having stayed with Märklin.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 20 September 2023 10:54:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,279
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Today I can see that it would not have been a big problem had I gone the full 1:87 way, and unfortunatly Fleischmann has seized to exist as a H0 brand. On the other hand, I would not have been able to adquire so much new(used) material in such a short time, had I gone the 1:87 way.
Couplers, wheels and interior lighting also seems easier, having stayed with Märklin.
I try to stick to 1:87 with new purchases.
Couplers and wheels are no problem. So far I mostly skip interior lights.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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