Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline waterslip  
#1 Posted : 09 August 2023 17:10:26(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Marklin Community,
I am trying to add railway crossing Faller 120171 to my layout. I want the crossing to activate when the train comes from with direction. I would like to the control to be using the presence of the train over the tracks (no button control)
I added contact tracks Marklin 24194 on both sides.
I powered the Faller 120171 using a 12V DC power source (as per instructions). I connected everything aside with no connection to my track Layout. I tested it by pushing on the triggers of the contact tracks and everything worked perfectly as expected.
However, when I connected the set to my tracks I powered the railcrossing using a 16V AC (also possible as per instructions) that 16v AC is also used to power my track Turn outs (marklin 6646), after making that connection it caused my Marklin 6021 to burn out. Now I am left with a damaged 6021 that I have to repair / replace it Crying .
Question is how should I connect the Faller 120171 ? do I have the right set up, and if I connect it to my tracks and power it using an external 12V DC will that work without damaging the layout ?

faller 120171 conneciton.jpgfaller 120171 device 2.jpgfaller 120171 device.jpg

Set up Digital Layout using Marklin 6021 and 6001. And Marklin 6646 to control and power the Track Turn outs.

Your guidance is much appreciated






Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 09 August 2023 17:50:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi xx (a first name would be great)
On the vast majority of digital devices, you MUST NOT re-use the power supply to other things.
CONVENTIONAL SOLUTION
Your level crossing (LC) Faller 120171 being micro-processor-fitted, it needs a separate power supply (whatever low voltage DC or AC), it has its own rectifier bridge.
The LC offers multiple modes conventional, digital, etc)

In conventional mode, one Red wire from the LC Microprocessor module connected to ground closes it while the Green wire to ground opens it.
For this to work in the Märklin environment, you must connect the GND screw terminal of the LC (bottom left) to the GND terminal (0 or brown) of your Märklin digital unit.

Now you can connect both slider-operated rails to the RED and GREEN wires.

FLOATING SOLUTION
Another solution is to power your LC with the power supply you wish AND use those slider-operated Märklin track (SOMT) with the common brown wire UNPLUGGED (not connected to Märklin ground). The metal tongue of the small printed circuit on this connected to the Faller module GND plug. Doing this way both circuits are floating (not connectred).
ATTENTION: make sure that the Märklin ground is NOT connected to the Faller GND.

I hope I am clear to you
Cheers
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#3 Posted : 09 August 2023 18:02:11(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello John,
Thanks for the quick reply. I am still a beginner at this; What is conventional mode ?
Yes what I did is that I connected the 0 (brown from Track) to the LC terminal GND as shown in the pic.
And the bars worked perfectly when pushing on the contact track. LC closed the bars.

I prefer the floating solution as I don't want to damage the layout.
So if I do this, can I just power the LC using a 12v DC and connect the 0 (ground of Track) to the GND of the LC module with no issues ?
Can you please elaborate more on this explanation, not too sure I follow how do I leave the common brown wire UNPLUGGED ?
"AND use those slider-operated Märklin track (SOMT) with the common brown wire UNPLUGGED (not connected to Märklin ground). The metal tongue of the small printed circuit on this connected to the Faller module GND plug"

Also I need to connect 2 wires to the metal tongues from the SOMT to the LC: one to STart and one to GND, as shown in pic. Your guidance is much appreciated. Thanks,





Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 09 August 2023 19:51:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Hello John,
Thanks for the quick reply. I am still a beginner at this; What is conventional mode ?
Yes what I did is that I connected the 0 (brown from Track) to the LC terminal GND as shown in the pic.
And the bars worked perfectly when pushing on the contact track. LC closed the bars.

I prefer the floating solution as I don't want to damage the layout.
So if I do this, can I just power the LC using a 12v DC and connect the 0 (ground of Track) to the GND of the LC module with no issues ?
Can you please elaborate more on this explanation, not too sure I follow how do I leave the common brown wire UNPLUGGED ?
"AND use those slider-operated Märklin track (SOMT) with the common brown wire UNPLUGGED (not connected to Märklin ground). The metal tongue of the small printed circuit on this connected to the Faller module GND plug"

Also I need to connect 2 wires to the metal tongues from the SOMT to the LC: one to STart and one to GND, as shown in pic. Your guidance is much appreciated. Thanks,


Conventional mode is the way Faller used to drive its LCs like a switch one wire to open and another one to shut the gates

Floating solution


It is based on 2 things
- you power up the Faller module the way you want (in accordance with Faller requirements 16VAC or 12 VDC)
- you use the Märklin slider-operated contact rails (24994, 24194, 24294) BUT YOU DISCONNECT THE BROWN CABLE AND ITS CONNECTOR. INSTEAD you bring the FALLER GND to the slider-operated contact rail making sure not contact exists between the 2 grounds
Sans titre.png
The idea is to use the Märklin special rails in a floating mode: Märklin's ground is NOT CONNECTED but the FALLER GND is used instead.
Of course, these rails, once the wiring changed, cannot be used for other purposes (switches, signals, etc) but only to drive the Faller LC).
Cheers
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2023 21:25:48(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Jean, thanks for the reply. So I made the connection as per your instructions here are the results.
I disconnected the brown cable of the SOMT and connected it to the GND of Faller LC module, and covered the connection with tape to avoid contact with something else.
I powered the Faller LC module via 12V DC I tested it manually apart from the layout and it worked perfectly..

Is this set up ok, can I power on the Tracks and run the trains without blowing anything. Here are the pics.
The layout is powered and controlled using a Marklin 6021 and 6001 :

pic1.jpg

pic2.jpg

pic3.jpg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 12 August 2023 01:34:58(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Hello Jean, thanks for the reply. So I made the connection as per your instructions here are the results.
I disconnected the brown cable of the SOMT and connected it to the GND of Faller LC module, and covered the connection with tape to avoid contact with something else.
I powered the Faller LC module via 12V DC I tested it manually apart from the layout and it worked perfectly..

Is this set up ok, can I power on the Tracks and run the trains without blowing anything. Here are the pics.
The layout is powered and controlled using a Marklin 6021 and 6001 :

Hi
Since you perfectly insulated with tape the female contact coming with the brown wire, you have totally made separate the rail and Märklin part (digital) and the Faller circuit.
So now it is about to connect with the Märklin blue wire SOMT each of the two male contact with the Faller red and green wire (red to inward going, green to outward going and you are done. Just make sure that all parts connected with Märklin circuit don't come into accidental contact with the Faller circuit. Use of heath-shrink tube may help
Cheers
Jean

Offline waterslip  
#7 Posted : 12 August 2023 04:37:35(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
So on the Faller I have the Start terminal and the GND terminal. Which ones are the Red and Green wire from the Faller ? The only green wire is coming from the Faller LC motor and 2 red wires for the Motor and the Schranke.
What I understood is that the insulated brown wore from the SOMT will go to the GND on Faller Terminal and the other wire from the male pin of the SOMT to the Start on Faller Terminal. Is this correct?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 12 August 2023 13:08:49(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
So on the Faller I have the Start terminal and the GND terminal. Which ones are the Red and Green wire from the Faller ? The only green wire is coming from the Faller LC motor and 2 red wires for the Motor and the Schranke.
What I understood is that the insulated brown wore from the SOMT will go to the GND on Faller Terminal and the other wire from the male pin of the SOMT to the Start on Faller Terminal. Is this correct?

Hi
Sorry I have mis interpreted the Faller user's manual.
Like I said before, the insulated brown wire of the SOMT is to connect to the Faller GND terminal and its female contact must be wrapped in a piece of tape or heath shrink.
Indeed you are wright there are no red and green wires from the Faller module but only a "Start" screw terminal which must remain connected to ground, the whole tiime, the barriers are down.
So a bistable (2 positions) relais (like the Märklin 7244) is needed that is triggered OPEN by impulses of the SOMT in the OUTWARD-GOING direction and CLOSED by impulses of the SOMT in the INWARD-GOING direction. The relay, when closed, will start the crossing closing sequence and the crossing will remain closed all the time.
The opening of the relay will start the opening sequence and the crossing will remain open all the time the relay is open

Agreed, the user's manual is confusing even in German language.
Cheers
Jean



Offline waterslip  
#9 Posted : 12 August 2023 16:51:39(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
OK that's good to know, thanks for the tip.
Just one more "gotcha" challenging question I'm facing, to finish it all off.
I am trying to add a sound effect to the movement of the barriers. When barriers start closing we hear the LC rail crossing bells.
So I connected a DFPlayer Mini MP3 module, that can play MP3 sound. And I can trigger the sound when the GND and trigger wire touch each other.
So what I did is connected the GND of device to the GND of the Faller and the trigger wire to the Start on the Faller (as shown in pic).
However, with the set up now (in Floating mode), the Faller is getting 12V DC and the MP3 player is getting 5V DC and

1. on the GND of the Faller Terminal : The GND wire of the MP3 player is connected + the SOMT Brown cable (the one we insulated).
2. on the Start of the Faller Terminal: the blue wire connected on the male pin of SOMT + MP3 player wire

Would that set up work on the layout without frying anything ?

Here's a PIC and a VIDEO, hope this clarifies it :

pic3.jpg

HERE's the VIDEO

Video.mov (2,408kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 12 August 2023 23:49:43(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
From what I understand, your DFPlayer uses 5VDC with a GND that is not the same as the Faller module. So you NEED a dry contact (no polarity whatsoever)
The DFPlayer accepts a dry contact entry to get started. See if Adkey1 when connected to the GND of the DFPlayer would play segment 1 of music (as the manual says).
Which contact to get it started? Why not use another (free) contact of the relay you are using for starting the level crossing, to get the DFPlayer started?
Cheers
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#11 Posted : 13 August 2023 01:44:48(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
See if Adkey1 when connected to the GND of the DFPlayer would play segment 1 of music (as the manual says).
Cheers
Jean


That is correct,when the GND and Adkey1 make contact on the DFPlayer the segment plays. And since the barriers on Faller close when the Start and GND make contact; what I did is that I connected the GND of DFplayer to the GND of Faller and Adkey1 of DFPlayer to Start on Faller. (keep in mind the SOMT male pin and brown wire are connected to the Start and GND on the Faller respectively).


"Which contact to get it started? Why not use another (free) contact of the relay you are using for starting the level crossing, to get the DFPlayer started?"
only when I make contact between Adkey1 and GND the sound plays. Are you proposing a different terminal from the Faller LC to connect ? and correct DFplayer runs on 5V DC, Faller on 12V DC.

Here's a pic, your guidance is much appreciated :



pic4.jpg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 13 August 2023 01:53:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
No, I suggested earlier, the use of a Märklin relay which has 4 SPDTs. So one could be used to drive the Faller crossing while another one would be used to start the sound module in total galvanic separation. This allows to keep the number of power supplies down.
This allows to keep the 5 volts supply for Arduinos independent of the Faller module.
Just a suggestions: linked power supplies may lead to problems when you forget about the links
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#13 Posted : 13 August 2023 14:17:24(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Just a suggestions: linked power supplies may lead to problems when you forget about the links
Jean

So you are suggesting that connecting the GND of the DFplayer (5V) with the GND of Faller (12V) and with the GND of the SOMT would pose a risk ?

Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 13 August 2023 14:32:33(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
No; I suggest, you leave the powersupplies NOT linked whenever this is possible, especially a 5 VDC on which power drops have very negative aspects
I suggest to use a separate contact of the relay used to trigger the Faller crossing. Many of my relays have 4 SPDT (Single Pole Dual Transfer, a set of 3 with a Normally Open, Normally Closed and the Middle contact). Relays such as Siemens, Märklin, etc.
Cheers
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#15 Posted : 14 August 2023 00:23:36(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Ok now I understand. you want an additional piece of hardware to separate contact of the relay between the 2 power supplies.
The hardware would be a 4-channel SPDT relay (Single Pole Double Throw) used to trigger the Faller. WHich allows keeping the power supplies seperate.
But how would I connect the wires to it ? Here's the Diagram :

pic5.jpg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 14 August 2023 15:14:04(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Why do you complicate things?
Use a Märklin relay 7244. It is bistable, it has 4 SPDTs, it can be driver by a normally available voltage 16 VAC (the other pole of the +16 VAC being connected to the 0 (brown of the digital power).
Sans titre.png

The connection to C track SOMT could be like this:
Crossing relay connection.png
Of course the Faller crossing is powered as indicated before and the DFPlayer is powered as needed
The wiring shows for bidirectional operation of the crossing's track
I can't do any better
Cheers
Jean
Offline waterslip  
#17 Posted : 14 August 2023 15:17:51(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
This diagram is perfect thank you Jean. Sorry for the back and forth.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.600 seconds.