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Delta 3356 Green Croc - Replacing with 60906
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#1 Posted : 29 July 2023 09:01:56(UTC)
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ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
I would like to replace the Delta decoder with a 60906 decoder. Why? I know of the problems that putting a new permanent magnet in this loco causes, mainly you have to shave off a chunk of the magnet to allow the loco to run on curves and I do not want to do this although I would like to use a more modern decoder.
I will have to devise a way to either retain the PCB that manages the Swiss lights or find out another solution, i.e. the Swiss guy's set of PCBs :-)
Is this the correct decoder to use?
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 29 July 2023 09:18:29(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Is this the correct decoder to use?
This is one of the options.
Using a regular decoder along with a HAMO magnet is another option.

Grinding a few millimetres off the "magnet" is another option, as you say. I did it and it was no problem, accomplished in short time with the help of an electric tool.

I'm sceptic about the 60906, but I never tried it. It probably behaves like an adjustable Delta decoder with 126 speed steps, so my expectations about the loco behaviour are not high. Decoder has no load regulation.

You can use four decoder outputs to control each light bulb independently and then configure F0 to activate those four outputs as needed, depending on the direction. No PCB needed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#3 Posted : 29 July 2023 09:42:24(UTC)
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ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
Hi Tom, now that I think of it I've used the 60906 decoder on the BR 81 010 from the 29185 train set.
It has improved quite a lot the driving specs of the loco.
The decoder is multi protocol: mfx, MM, DCC and as you say has no motor control AKA load regulation.
It only has two AUX outputs for smoke and telex couplers. So I coulld use these to control the lights?
Thank you for your input
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 29 July 2023 09:51:14(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
It only has two AUX outputs for smoke and telex couplers. So I coulld use these to control the lights?
Yes.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#5 Posted : 29 July 2023 10:02:36(UTC)
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ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
where can I find info on how to do this? The EcoS manual or somewhere else? Never done this before. Thank you
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 29 July 2023 10:15:20(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
where can I find info on how to do this? The EcoS manual or somewhere else?
Programming Märklin decoders with an ESU tool is very difficult. Programming ESU decoders with a Märklin tool is very difficult.

Programming the decoder can easily be done using a CS2 or CS3 using the graphical user interface.
With an ECoS, you have to use the CV tables included in the decoder manual or available on the Märklin site. The ECoS makes it easy to program ESU decoders.

The Delta decoder has two light outputs. You can connect the two light outputs of the 60906 to the same spots in the loco to get the same functionality. Then you won't have any hassle with CV programming.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#7 Posted : 29 July 2023 10:31:50(UTC)
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ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
the loco has a PCB that controls the lights, at least this is what I think this does

IMG_5710.jpeg
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 29 July 2023 10:47:46(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Sorry, I forgot that old Delta decoders do not have dedicated light outputs and use the motor outputs for the lights.

If the PCB is for the light change-over, then it will just have a few diodes and reverse-engineering should be rather simple.

Does the loco have 3+1 lights with four lights bulbs?
If it only has 3+0 lights with 2 light bulbs, then you simply connect yellow and grey from the decoder to yellow and grey from the loco and leave that PCB out completely.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#9 Posted : 29 July 2023 12:41:24(UTC)
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ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
I don't know what you mean by 3+1 or 3+0
Every side of the loco has 2 light bulbs.
Both on in direction of travel and only on one at the other end.
Looking at how they are soldered there are the two light cables on each of the bulb's anodes and there is a black cable bridged with the other two anodes, hope I'm clear. In case I'll attache a photo 😊
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Online ktsolias  
#10 Posted : 29 July 2023 13:47:30(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Hi

This is my conversion of a 3352

https://www.marklin-user...um/posts/t37675-Marklin-

I have done other conversions as well is crocodiles exactly the same way with great success,
I did two conversions with 60906 but I am not happy at all. So I stopped

The other solution is ESU permanent magnet plus ESU decoder

Costas
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