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Offline PeterF7  
#1 Posted : 13 July 2023 01:06:27(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
I've been following a number of suggestions for developing a layout plan for a number of years. I have a 12x14 foot space with a closet and door. Attached is a PDF of the plan I've been working on. I call it the Kitchen Sink in that it includes "everything" but could be scaled back. The grid is 1' by 1'.

A major yard is on the left. Along the left edge is a facade between where the two north-south tracks are located. The facade is similar to that in the MMR issue of June 2023. The two gray areas represent passenger station platforms.

Near the top center is a gray rectangular area which represents a coaling station that is above the roundhouse.

On the diagonal are two areas divided by a wall (red line). The area on the right is a fiddle yard while the area on the left is a small industrial area with a meat processing, canning plant, etc. Again the long gray area is a passenger station.

A bridge for entering the control area is near the bottom of the diagram.

The two red rectangular areas in the lower right corner represent the area for a closet and a room door.

A diagonal line in the upper left hand corner measures the 1630 mm distance to the upper left hand corner of the room to the closest layout point for accessing that corner. That's a bit far so an access door may be needed but there is a bit of track in that far corner.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

Peter

KitchenSink2.jpg
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Online JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 13 July 2023 13:08:01(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter
It sounds just great. Everything is there: reversing loop, steam depot, plenty of sidings.
There seem to be little space for landscape though.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline PeterF7  
#3 Posted : 13 July 2023 20:49:36(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
Thank you John for your quick reply.

I viewed your layout and it is impressively automated!! Love the action around the turntable with the coal crane and watering system. It mentions that you use a piece of software called RocRail. How do you like it? Running 30 trains is impressive and I don't have much space in my layout for many operators.

With respect to my layout, it's basically flat. I do like what you did with the marshaling yard where the cars are uncoupled and move by gravity to one of three classification tracks.

I thought about putting in a spiral to create an additional level like you did. That would free up space and place the fiddle yard under the diagonal town area. If I do that, I might have to add a second spiral and where to place it? Lots to think about.

With regard to landscaping, the diagonal town area should provide some opportunities but it won't be like some of the layouts such as the one created by John Allen.

Offline analogmike  
#4 Posted : 13 July 2023 21:13:25(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 731
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Hello Peter,
My two cents.
I would rotate the roundhouse so you can see your loks. Next. I would try to reduce the number of double slip xings. They look good on paper
but you're looking for derailments, It would also enable you to lengthen some sidings.
Mikey
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Online JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 14 July 2023 00:06:05(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: PeterF7 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you John for your quick reply.

I viewed your layout and it is impressively automated!! Love the action around the turntable with the coal crane and watering system. It mentions that you use a piece of software called RocRail. How do you like it? Running 30 trains is impressive and I don't have much space in my layout for many operators.

With respect to my layout, it's basically flat. I do like what you did with the marshaling yard where the cars are uncoupled and move by gravity to one of three classification tracks.

I thought about putting in a spiral to create an additional level like you did. That would free up space and place the fiddle yard under the diagonal town area. If I do that, I might have to add a second spiral and where to place it? Lots to think about.

With regard to landscaping, the diagonal town area should provide some opportunities but it won't be like some of the layouts such as the one created by John Allen.


Hi Peter
Glad you like my layout.
Rocrail that I am using is just great and allows you to jump from loco's engineer to railroad empire top chief.
My layout is on 3 levels with some space for the landscape and the operating Faller Car system.

Rocrail is very inexpensive: I use my general purpose laptop with a CAT5 cable between the CS3 and the laptop.
Rocrail license is whatever you want (when you want and of the amount you want). New release every day so all new devices get accomodated quite immediately. Basically you pay when you are happy but beware, you will be happy!
The only thing is to do it step by step (don't start with a large test layout)

Here is the layout when I started testing (one year after T0:


Here is a combined operation with the Faller car System three years after T0


I am not trying to brag (nothing to brag about) but for a large layout like yours (much bigger than mine - L-shaped 3.5 x 4 m) to use Rocrail is a must I think.
Cheers
Jean




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Offline PeterF7  
#6 Posted : 14 July 2023 03:11:15(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
I'll give RocRail a try. Anyrail has been wonderful for use in designing this system. Software can really help out!!

Is your Faller Car System tied into the RocRail software? It appears so where the vehicles stop at a falling crossing gate but I had to ask.

AnalogMike made the suggestion of turning the Roundhouse around so the action can be seen. I think it's a great idea!! In fact, I've already done that.

I'm also thinking of moving the fiddle yard to down under the main yard. I think I can do it without relying upon helical spirals. It would allow me to have one track over the bridge. I can then move the diagonal town toward the lower right and make more space for the control area. But I'm not sure on how to do this with the upper space available. It's challenging and fun!!
Online JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 14 July 2023 12:55:20(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter

Yes do give Rocrail a try (I have no connection with Rocrail but I believe the team is doing fantastic and deserves support)
- manuals and step by step https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=stepbystep-en
- download (select your computer type: Windows, Raspberry, IOS,..) https://wiki.rocrail.net/rocrail-snapshot/
- support key: optional, can start evaluating without it, 99% of all fonctions are available without it but I strongly recommend to support if you like Rocrail
- forum: the English forum for you is a must to get help when starting
- interactive help: when using Rocrail, no matter which fonction you use, just press HELP and you get the documentation page related to your issue in YOUR language

Regarding the Faller Car System (FCS), I started with the standard Faller logic blocks but soon I had the need for regulation and interconnection with the rail part (e.g. do not send too much traffic when the level crossing is closed.
Here is a "Rollende Landstasse" (freeway thru rail) were there is an obvious connection between Rocrail and the FCS


Yes, it is a splendid idea to have a good sight of your steam depot by changing the roundhouse orientation.
Cheers
Jean
Offline PeterF7  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2023 22:31:55(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
Jean,

I read more on RocRail. Very impressive!!

I see that you are also using the Faller Car System. From its description, it uses a buried guide wire. In your video of your layout, I see the vehicles moving along the roadways and stopping occasionally for traffic lights and trains. When a vehicle goes over track, how is the wire strung? Depth seems to be critical and laying the guide wire **over** the track seem problematic. How did you accomplish the continuity? I see that it uses an internal battery to power vehicle wheels. How well do the batteries hold up?

I see there is another product called Magnorail https://www.magnorail.com/en/. did you look at it at all? If so, thoughts?

Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 24 July 2023 00:46:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,053
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PeterF7 Go to Quoted Post

I see there is another product called Magnorail https://www.magnorail.com/en/. did you look at it at all? If so, thoughts?


Magnorail is a quite different product, and I wouldn't use it for a car system. Its original use for push bikes is quite innovative, and while they show it also being used for cars, it doesn't look right.

Noch have produced two sets using Magnorail, one with sailboats on a lake, and one with skiers (or was it ice skaters).
Online JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 24 July 2023 01:08:18(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: PeterF7 Go to Quoted Post
Jean,

I read more on RocRail. Very impressive!!

I see that you are also using the Faller Car System. From its description, it uses a buried guide wire. In your video of your layout, I see the vehicles moving along the roadways and stopping occasionally for traffic lights and trains. When a vehicle goes over track, how is the wire strung? Depth seems to be critical and laying the guide wire **over** the track seem problematic. How did you accomplish the continuity? I see that it uses an internal battery to power vehicle wheels. How well do the batteries hold up?

I see there is another product called Magnorail https://www.magnorail.com/en/. did you look at it at all? If so, thoughts?


Hi Peter
Faller Car System rail crossing musts
- avoid using "magnetic" rails for oblique crossings (only copper, brass, etc)
- install a platic plate between the rails at same level
- cut transverse grooves for guiding wire
- install "studs" to feed the trains but no studs where the magnetic slider or the car wheels go

Depth of wire? Use the Faller groove cutter 161669

How to achieve continuity of wire at intersections?
- when 2 or more guide wires intersect, cut them 2 mm short of the intersection and install a small metal rail at the exact intersection4

Batteries are good for one hour operation (they are never full time operated).
Cheers

Jean
Offline PeterF7  
#11 Posted : 24 July 2023 02:22:02(UTC)
PeterF7

United States   
Joined: 14/08/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: North Carolina, Durham
Hello Jean,

I took a look at your "My Layout" video at:
and I can easily see the plastic plates at the two crossing at about 7 seconds in. The lower one at the bottom left of center has the Marklin track studs poking through the plastic while the crossing left of center shows no track studs pointing through. I am assuming that NO Faller wire is conducting through this lower left plate.

At the other intersection, I can see a thin gap in the track in front of the bus between the rails. I assume that is where the Faller wire goes. I think I can see track studs in the middle of the white center line and at the periphery of the plastic plate. (At 5:24, I see three studs left, right and center of the center white line.) I do not see any studs where the bus wheels or slider will traverse in the travel lanes. My thought is that the studs at the center and periphery will keep the trains from stalling at the intersection of street and rail but prevent a short circuit from happening between the slider and any nearby track studs.

I think this is what you were trying to convey.

Thank you for your help!!

Peter
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Online JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 24 July 2023 12:21:08(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter
The plastic plates I used were the ones coming with Faller's level crossing but you must install those plates at the same height as the rails' top.
Doing this make your Märklin studs disappear (not long enough on C track, here used because of a 90° angle).
So I made Studs for the Märklin sliders, using brass nails.
Another method, using C rail and using a soldering iron, force the studs to be raised 0.5 mm above the rails top surface, remove the excess studs (near the guiding wires and the trucks / car wheel path and finally drill holes in the plate before its installation.
Here is a video of the Faller Car System construction and it starts with the level crossing.

Here is another one with a lot of level crossing operation


Cheers
Jean
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