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Offline aclassifier  
#1 Posted : 09 April 2023 18:48:04(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
I have discovered that if I run by Märklin 55681 Ce 6/8 III (crocodile) through an S-curve with Märklin track 59035 with R = 1.02 m and 22.5 degrees with a GwLBay96 wagon from Fine Models then the buffers will pass each other, causing a derail of the wagon.

Doing this with an E71 from Fine Models, which does not have a blind axle at the end, then it's ok.

too_narrow_for_some_loco-wagon_combinations

I have gone further and tested with the 59076 R = 1.55 m (also 22.5 degrees) then the crocodile passes ok by a cry.

The diameter of the buffers are 14.0 mm on the Ce 6/8 III crocodile, 12.9 mm on the wagon and and 11.5 mm on the E71. The loco that needs the widest buffer indeed has the widest buffer.

I wonder if there is some general matters about S-curves that I need to know about?

In [1] (which has more pictures) I have suggested the below solutions. Comments?
  1. Add a “buffer plank” between the buffers on the loco. Not nice
  2. Get wider buffer plates. Not prototypical
  3. Get couplings with a defined minimum length to keep the wagon at arm’s distance. Hmm. Best?

[1] Too narrow for some loco-wagon combinations
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by aclassifier
Offline BenP  
#2 Posted : 09 April 2023 19:09:14(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Not a direct solution, but suggestion to put short straight in between S connection, briefly straightening the train set and giving more pleasant drive aesthetic for larger units.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by BenP
Offline aclassifier  
#3 Posted : 09 April 2023 21:16:16(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
Not a direct solution, but suggestion to put short straight in between S connection, briefly straightening the train set and giving more pleasant drive aesthetic for larger units.


Thank you. Yes, that would be more realistic in all ways, I assume.

But my shelf railway doesn't have space for it. That's why I made a short wye switch. I thought that was the problem since it there is one S-curve in each direction, but it turned out to be more basic by nature.
Offline aclassifier  
#4 Posted : 03 May 2023 15:28:10(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Rudimentary between hooks bar

I did make this rod. It's a first version.

It’s made of steel staples that I saved from a large box that came with a chair. I made eyes in each end that attach to the hook in the wagon and the long nosed 55681.

I filed it somewhat so that it sits firmly in the hooks. Almost as firmly that it’s difficult to get them in place. This is needed so that it’s possible to push the wagon through the switch. If not, the bar would be pressed up and out of the hooks.

The photo shows a pulling situation. A pushing situation is somewhat tighter.

Q1. Does anybody know a manufacturer who would make a "prototypical" version like this? One with a screw that could be adjusted. I guess that in the 1/1 world one wouldn't dream up such a thing. But in the 1/32 world I would be surprised if I were the first to have this need?
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 03 May 2023 16:02:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if there is some general matters about S-curves that I need to know about?
S curves can be difficult, but also curves in the same direction with a short straight piece in between.

From the product database about 56101:
"This coupler looks and works like its real life prototype. Running a train with this coupler usually requires a very wide minimum radius of 3.0 to 3.5 meters or 118" to 138", depending on the models."

So maybe you are lucky that your train works with 1.5 m radius.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline aclassifier  
#6 Posted : 03 May 2023 21:13:21(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if there is some general matters about S-curves that I need to know about?
S curves can be difficult, but also curves in the same direction with a short straight piece in between.

From the product database about 56101:
"This coupler looks and works like its real life prototype. Running a train with this coupler usually requires a very wide minimum radius of 3.0 to 3.5 meters or 118" to 138", depending on the models."

So maybe you are lucky that your train works with 1.5 m radius.

Very interesting! The reference you mention is 56101 Retrofit Set of Reproduction Prototype Couplers.

The 55681 is about 108 mm (*32 = 3.45 m) from the first driving axle to the end of the buffers, linking over a first leading wheel. Comparing with an SBB Ae 3/6 II there would be two leading axles between the buffers and the first driving would be about 5.7 m from my books. So it would be worse than the protruding nose of crocodile. But then, when scaling down it depends on the design perhaps. I don't know about gauge 1, which looks rather prototypical to me, at least on the outside, but for H0 this may be very differently done. I have an example in a blog note SBB Ae 3/6 II differences. The Roco 68402 and the Märklin 37512 are very differently built. The Roco runs above the curves while the Märklin's front is well outside the rail.

As you mention, it certainly depends on the model. By the way, the E71 is about 51 mm * 32 = 1.63 m for the same measure, making it ideal for my short wye switch with wagon.

Edit: I see that the opening of the hook will hold any circular object that fits in the larger part, and that the hook's top part is more narrow. This is probably some NEM standard? Therefore sliding something round 100% fill in from the side and then lock it would probably be a better way to hold any non-flexible through-the-hooks bar.

Edit 2: It seems like a wire of diameter 1.7 mm fits well inside all the 3 different hooks I have (two locos and one wagon), and that this diameter cannot be pushed up and out of the hook. I thought this was a 2.5 mm2 solid copper, but PI*R*R is 2.27 mm2, so it might not be.

Edited by user 04 May 2023 18:18:01(UTC)  | Reason: Edit 2

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