Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline 1borna  
#1 Posted : 04 April 2023 20:24:06(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,340
Location: Hrvatska
The neighbor is annoyed by the railway model - now the pensioner has to stop it
A pensioner in the Weinland region of Zurich has to tear down a model railway that he kept in his garden for 30 years.
It was the decision of the administrative court in December 2022 that pulled the rug from under the feet of a retired couple in the Zurich Weinland region: the lovingly built model railway in the garden, which had stood there for 30 years, must be dismantled - as well as the thuja hedge.
UserPostedImage
The pensioner says to "Landbote": "My hobby is ruined." The man set his course in the early 1990s. The couple then bought the property because the slope in the garden is perfect for recreating a model mountain railway. There are two paths in the garden - one 80 meters long and the other 55 meters long. Scale of the locomotive, passenger and freight cars: 1:45. "It's part of my life," says the man who has worked his entire career in the railroad industry.

It's over now. It's still a shock to the couple. Because the lower court, the building appeals court, still found the demolition, ordered by the local municipal council, to be disproportionate. The path and the hedge were therefore to remain. However, the neighbor objected to this verdict, appealed and was right. The couple told "Landbot" that they do not have the strength to go further to the federal court.
UserPostedImage
The couple should have been informed
The problem: when the couple bought the property in the nineties, part of the garden was in an agricultural zone. The couple knew nothing about it. Because 30 years ago, the municipality gave different information about zones. When the building's management informed the couple about the agricultural zone two years ago, they were stunned. "It has always been said that there is a free zone," says the pensioner. According to the couple, this was also communicated by management, but was never recorded in writing.
It was the decision of the administrative court in December 2022 that pulled the rug from under the feet of a retired couple in the Zurich Weinland region: the lovingly built model railway in the garden, which had stood there for 30 years, must be dismantled - as well as the thuja hedge.

The pensioner says to "Landbote": "My hobby is ruined." The man set his course in the early 1990s. The couple then bought the property because the slope in the garden is perfect for recreating a model mountain railway. There are two paths in the garden - one 80 meters long and the other 55 meters long. Scale of the locomotive, passenger and freight cars: 1:45. "It's part of my life," says the man who has worked his entire career in the railroad industry.
https://www.20min.ch/story/nachb...t-abbrechen-147471731823
It's over now. It's still a shock to the couple. Because the lower court, the building appeals court, still found the demolition, ordered by the local municipal council, to be disproportionate. The path and the hedge were therefore to remain. However, the neighbor objected to this verdict, appealed and was right. The couple told "Landbot" that they do not have the strength to go further to the federal court.
UserPostedImage
The couple should have been informed
The problem: when the couple bought the property in the nineties, part of the garden was in an agricultural zone. The couple knew nothing about it. Because 30 years ago, the municipality gave different information about zones. When the building's management informed the couple about the agricultural zone two years ago, they were stunned. "It has always been said that there is a free zone," says the pensioner. According to the couple, this was also communicated by management, but was never recorded in writing.
An appeals court in the building admitted to the couple that they assumed in "good faith" that there was a clear zone. However, the Administrative Court saw it differently. Since 1984, part of the property has been part of the agricultural zone. Informing about the zoning of a property before buying or building is part of "reasonable care and concern".
Neighbor fee
In other words: the administrative court assumes that the married couple - unlike the construction appeals court - built the railway model "in bad faith". Because of the defeat before the administrative court, the couple is also being asked to pay. They must pay the neighbor 4,500 francs in compensation for his expenses. And the couple will be charged court costs of almost 8,000 francs.


thanks 8 users liked this useful post by 1borna
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 04 April 2023 21:04:38(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
No justice.
Some modern authority bodies are collectively neanderthals.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 8 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline Toosmall  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2023 21:56:04(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Sydney
Something like this is usually solved depending who has the deepest pockets unfortunately.

I suppose then he could stick up some seriously ugly scarecrow effigy being agricultural land!
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2023 22:55:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Toosmall Go to Quoted Post
Something like this is usually solved depending who has the deepest pockets unfortunately.

I suppose then he could stick up some seriously ugly scarecrow effigy being agricultural land!


I guess if they found a branch with 5 twiglets on the end, but only the middle one stuck straight out that would make a suitable arm ...
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2023 06:43:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Anything as harmless as this can change your life for ever, unless you've got written evidence your word against the council is nil, and even with written evidence they always can turn around and say it was a mistake., these type of land pockets can always cause problems, I think it was here in Australia, someone had a small farm with animals, over the years the neighbouring land was subdivided for residential and the new neighbour complaint to the councl about the farm animals being next door to him., I can't remember the outcome., and than there is an other issue, neighbouring land being approved for mining.
My mother bought a property which was grazing land (green land) many years ago but she was later adviced by the council if she would like to build a home she could do so by applying for an exemption but she never did, the land was sold more or less for the same price when she bought it 20 years later after her death.
Most probably if this would have happened in England the community would have rallied against the decision or organized a fund raiser to go to a higher court.

A very sad day for model trains

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 05 April 2023 09:27:06(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Come on, we dont KNOW anything about the case, what lead up to it, and for how long it has run.
The whole text seems written only to steer up emotions.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 05 April 2023 09:58:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Come on, we dont KNOW anything about the case, what lead up to it, and for how long it has run.
The whole text seems written only to steer up emotions.


Would you build such an extensive layout if you wold know its against the council by laws ? there are most probably a lot of people who constructed buildings etc etc. without the knowledge of the council, garages, sheds, add ons but this is a whole garden layput and has been there for 30 years, I'm sure if there had been objections before, there would have been somesort of rules to dismantle the layout but you're right we don't know the ins and outs

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 05 April 2023 11:38:12(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,711
Location: Auckland,
What seems so ludicrous to me is that the authorities even care enough to do this. So what if it is agricultural zoned, what they are doing is not adversely affecting the Swiss agricultural industry or nature.

They should be allowed to continue as they are!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 05 April 2023 13:41:29(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,076
Location: Michigan, Troy
Some elderly people are bothered when someone sneezes, just saying. It's when the mind begins to age. My fathers neighbor was a mean widowed woman. She sent nasty leters using cut out alphabet charcters from magazines and he knew it was her. After my mom died, she begged dad to be her friend. He told her my friend Mary next door to you died. You were mean to her too!
Offline Toosmall  
#10 Posted : 05 April 2023 14:14:47(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Sydney
Grow herbs, you need access & freight. Replace the passenger carriages with freight.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 05 April 2023 14:47:10(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Wonder if they can claim that they are preserving a rear culture in danger of being extinct or something similar, and bring their case to the European Court of Human Rights. ?
anyway, it's sad to see such a nice layout have to go.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by bph
Offline Toosmall  
#12 Posted : 05 April 2023 17:23:56(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Sydney
Just need to think out a logical business plan.

There are enough restaurants that the food is waitered (if that is a word) to the table by model train.

So harvesting Greek Miniture Basil & Cherry Tomatoes shipped by model train to warehouse for packaging, is simply a niche value adding market.

I can just see the diners, brilliant 221 from farm, bloody Swiss train to table!

I can't see any issues other than an OH&S (Occupational Health & Safety) bruise from a 221 from inadvertently standing on a crossing!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline Unholz  
#13 Posted : 06 April 2023 08:21:09(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Switzerland
Now that the neighbor has told his version of the story things look rather different. I don't have time for a translation, sorry, but www.deepl.com should be able to help if necessary:
https://www.20min.ch/sto...hn-wirklich-719559303665
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Unholz
Offline Toosmall  
#14 Posted : 06 April 2023 10:01:53(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Sydney
Just open in Google & click english.

There is a big difference between a building & a toy in the garden.

Looks like this will be warfare till one moves on ahead!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline marklinist5999  
#15 Posted : 06 April 2023 15:02:53(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,076
Location: Michigan, Troy
The article translates to english automatically. I like one comment posted below it. "Obviously the judges are not the model railway enthusiest type, abd prefer to play video games.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
Offline 1borna  
#16 Posted : 06 April 2023 19:48:12(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,340
Location: Hrvatska
So the owner of the garden layout was bothered by the roof of the house in his neighbor's garden, so he started a lawsuit against him.
UserPostedImage
That other neighbor wanted an agreement and reconciliation, but he didn't succeed, so now they both have to demolish what was built!
UserPostedImage
The 250 cm high wooden prefab house irritated the neighbor a lot, so now he is left without his paradise.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 1borna
Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 07 April 2023 03:26:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Typical male ego gone mad
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline hxmiesa  
#18 Posted : 09 April 2023 10:00:55(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Karma!

-Always listen to both sides of an argument, before judging...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
Offline kimballthurlow  
#19 Posted : 09 April 2023 10:40:40(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: 1borna Go to Quoted Post
...when the couple bought the property in the nineties, part of the garden was in an agricultural zone. The couple knew nothing about it. Because 30 years ago, the municipality gave different information about zones. When the building's management informed the couple about the agricultural zone two years ago, they were stunned. ......




My daughter and family lives in a small town (pop. about 10,000) in southern Germany.
About 2 years ago they were looking to buy a house property with a back garden.
Before signing a contract they had searches done of the title, and found a small strip of land at the back about 4 metres wide that belonged to nobody.
There were written records of ownership transfer which were never registered or notarised (non-payment of fees, expiry etc etc).
The trouble was that the only vehicular entry was across that strip.
In the end the Lands authority could find no definitive record of ownership of the strip so it made the property far less useable.
So the State could have claimed ownership but at what cost and time to the new landowner?

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline marklinist5999  
#20 Posted : 09 April 2023 14:04:53(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,076
Location: Michigan, Troy
Another debocle are homeowners associations. They are like condominium ones which restrict what you can do. Example are no ugly patio sets on decks, porches, or in courtyards, no extreme plantings or beds, no ornate entry/garage doors, or certain colors, etc.
Offline Willem99  
#21 Posted : 09 April 2023 18:26:42(UTC)
Willem99

United States   
Joined: 18/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Georgia, Ball Ground
Don't get me started about HOA's.
You can only plant approved trees and bushes, not allowed to take out what is there.
The house can only be painted approved colors, garage doors must all be the same style.
Flower beds need to be approved before being made.
Cars can not stand in the street, garage doors must be closed.
If the dog barks you can get a complaint. ( even is it only for the mailman or garbage truck)
Only time one political sign is allowed, is a week before the election ( what if you do not agree with the wife, who gets to chose ?)
Monthly inspections of the yard to make sure everything is standard.
The list just goes on and on. You get the full document when you buy the place, ours was 35 pages long.
By the way, this is the USA, supposed to be the land of the free.

This is the reason why I sold my house in the sub division and bought land outside the city.
It takes a while to build, but they are making good progress, and I can do what I want there.
Don't like a tree ?, Buy a chain saw at the Home Depot.
Tim
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Willem99
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.923 seconds.